Hagler vs. Leonard!!

[Sugarj]

I'll second that GJC, for what its worth most folks actually would give the fifth round to Hagler not Leonard, so its strange that a room full of Hagler fans found this round one of Leonard's most dominant!!

Or could it have been the budweiser clouding things??

Now round four was very dominant for Leonard!! This I believe had the bolo punch and a very neat four punch combo from Leonard.

[Marcov]

Are you saying Hearns did not break his right-hand in the opening round with Hagler?

i have addressed the Hagler vs Braxton topic above.

name for me the 5 Top 10 contenders Marvin Hagler fought in the year he was waiting to fight Antuofermo? from my memory they was 5 tomato cans... when Hagler fought Antuofermo they fought to a draw and IMO that fight was a DRAW Hagler certainly never took the title off Antuofermo..

I am in no-way knocking Marvin Hagler, he was a very good fighter & champion, but lets be clear here about his victories and his limitations.

My source was Ring ****zine in the 70's and I know Mike Colbert 23-0, Kevin Finnegan 31-6, Doug Demmings 20-3, Bennie Briscoe and Sugar Ray Seales were ranked. I think Willie Monroe and Norberto Cabrera were rankd as well but I'll have to dig out a ring mag from 78-79 to be sure.

sonnyboyx2;7063092 I mean no offence by this, but were you even alive in the late seventies and watching boxing?

[Great Afrikan]

Hagler edged it....

[DeepSleep]

I just rewatched it and got the same result I got before, SRL 116 - 112.

Rounds:
SRL - 1,2,3,4,6,10,11,12
Hagler - 5,7,8,9

[GJC]

I just rewatched it and got the same result I got before, SRL 116 - 112.

Rounds:
SRL - 1,2,3,4,6,10,11,12
Hagler - 5,7,8,9

I watched it again a few months back so a little hazier but there is no way Leonard won the last 3 rounds. And the commonly held belief that Leonard won the first 5 rounds I don't go with pretty sure Hagler won one of them, 3rd as memory serves?

[Sugarj]

Much as I scored the fight to Leonard, agreed he didn't win the last three rounds, I seem to remember giving him either the tenth or eleventh. The ninth round was interesting.......most give it to Hagler, he did his best work of the fight, but for me I felt that Leonard's combinations this round more than answered Hagler's good pressure work as he pinned Leonard on the ropes.

As for the first five, I gave Leonard 1,2, and 4. I felt 3 was fairly even, but had 5 a Hagler round.

[DeepSleep]

I watched it again a few months back so a little hazier but there is no way Leonard won the last 3 rounds. And the commonly held belief that Leonard won the first 5 rounds I don't go with pretty sure Hagler won one of them, 3rd as memory serves?

Yes of the early rounds Round 3 is the round that is very close. He finally gets to SRL who clearly had to re-adjust to fighting Hagler once he went southpaw. I'd be hard pressed to argue with anyone giving the round to Hagler. Also of the first five rounds I'd also give Hagler round 5.

I re-watched the last three rounds.

Round 10 is clearly SRL, he throws more, lands more, and lands cleaner all the while not getting hit cleanly. Hagler barely mounts an offense in this round.

Round 11 is closer but still SRL has the edge in my book. Both land some blows but SRL lands much cleaner punches than Hagler whose punches seem to have lost a lot of accuracy.

Round 12 could have gone either way, with both fighters landing clean punches.

I think 3, 11, 12 are all very close rounds that could go either way. I think the fight was very close and I'd say that I wouldn't argue very much if the judges gave it to Hagler or ruled it a draw. The 118 - 110 score by Jose Juan Guerra was ridiculous.

[sonnyboyx2]

My source was Ring ****zine in the 70's and I know Mike Colbert 23-0, Kevin Finnegan 31-6, Doug Demmings 20-3, Bennie Briscoe and Sugar Ray Seales were ranked. I think Willie Monroe and Norberto Cabrera were rankd as well but I'll have to dig out a ring mag from 78-79 to be sure.

sonnyboyx2;7063092 I mean no offence by this, but were you even alive in the late seventies and watching boxing?

born 1958 started collecting fight films in 79, today i have a collection of over 20,000+

only Mike Colbert was ranked in 79 (fringe) the others was not Top 10 ranked fighters... Sugar Rar Seales was virtually blind when Hagler beat him the final time, by all accounts Kevin Finnigan gave Hagler `fits`with Hagler winning by using dirty tactics, Briscoe was years past his best,... interesting how you leave out Thomas, Patterson & Warren 3 Tomato-cans who between them had more than 50 defeats

[GJC]

Yes of the early rounds Round 3 is the round that is very close. He finally gets to SRL who clearly had to re-adjust to fighting Hagler once he went southpaw. I'd be hard pressed to argue with anyone giving the round to Hagler. Also of the first five rounds I'd also give Hagler round 5.

I re-watched the last three rounds.

Round 10 is clearly SRL, he throws more, lands more, and lands cleaner all the while not getting hit cleanly. Hagler barely mounts an offense in this round.

Round 11 is closer but still SRL has the edge in my book. Both land some blows but SRL lands much cleaner punches than Hagler whose punches seem to have lost a lot of accuracy.

Round 12 could have gone either way, with both fighters landing clean punches.

I think 3, 11, 12 are all very close rounds that could go either way. I think the fight was very close and I'd say that I wouldn't argue very much if the judges gave it to Hagler or ruled it a draw. The 118 - 110 score by Jose Juan Guerra was ridiculous.

Like I said I wouldn't argue with those who scored it to SRL opinion is opinion, I would argue with those who said it was clearly to one guy or other as it was an extremely tight fight.
I hate draws and think it is a cop out but 'd go with a draw for this one.
I'm a bit old fashioned as well in my belief that a challenger has to win a title and you have to give the benefit of any doubt to the champion. Had Hagler been challenging i'd probably go with Leonard on that proviso.

[HaglerSteelChin]

Possibly the most controversial close decision of all time.

I have seen the fight numerous times and i had leonard winning by one point, i had 6 RDS leonard, 5RDS Hagler, and one even. We know hagler was foolish to fight orthodox instead of southpaw in the early rds. If it would have been 15 Rds than i think Hagler would have won possibly by stoppage.

This is a fight where possibly 3 Rds were swing rds and they could have gone either way. For example, RD9 Hagler was winning and had SRL in the ropes but SRL fought back with a fury combination that were not pittypat, it moved Hagler off him. Some will say that SRL won the drama of the fight in RD9 at that moment, because Hagler couldnt finish SRL.

The final punchstat numbers had SRL landing more punches. It was a close fight and merited a rematch in which i thought Hagler wouldnt give up the early by fighting in his usual Southpaw.