Hagler vs. Leonard!!

[GJC]

No I can't see it either but I'm willing to be proven wrong.
Qawi only held the LHW title for 18 months and both Hagler and Qawi at that time were tidying up their divisions so to speak fighting the mandatorys etc.
Hagler never seemed to show much inclination to move out of his weight class to me, a sensible move as I don't think he would have the size to campaign too successfully at LHW.
That said if he was going to fight any light heavy in that era Qawi would have been his best chance, I can't see tat he would have had much success against Spinks.

Besides why would he want to move up to a historically low paying division when he had Duran,Hearns and Leonard to move up? Would have made no sense at all.

[Sugarj]

I never found Hagler a winner and have watched this fight dozens of times. The first time I watched it I had Leonard by a few points, but realistically after consideration and rewatches 115:113 Leonard is how I have it now.

Even the biggest Hagler nuthugger has to admit, he was far from impressive that night, he looked slow and missed a lot with his punches, he had very little defense (he was a bit of a goalkeeper to be honest).

There was no round that Hagler truely dominated and Leonard dazzled even in rounds that he lost. Hagler's cornerwork and gameplan was desperate. Who decided to send Hagler out orthodox for the first few rounds? And why were the Petronelli's not giving him the riot act towards the end of the fight between rounds, surely they must have known it was close? Even Gil Clancy commentating said that they were speaking to Hagler 'like it was an IBM meeting'!!!!

[GJC]

I never found Hagler a winner and have watched this fight dozens of times. The first time I watched it I had Leonard by a few points, but realistically after consideration and rewatches 115:113 Leonard is how I have it now.

Even the biggest Hagler nuthugger has to admit, he was far from impressive that night, he looked slow and missed a lot with his punches, he had very little defense (he was a bit of a goalkeeper to be honest).

There was no round that Hagler truely dominated and Leonard dazzled even in rounds that he lost. Hagler's cornerwork and gameplan was desperate. Who decided to send Hagler out orthodox for the first few rounds? And why were the Petronelli's not giving him the riot act towards the end of the fight between rounds, surely they must have known it was close? Even Gil Clancy commentating said that they were speaking to Hagler 'like it was an IBM meeting'!!!!

No I agree Hagler was awful, I think he seemed to think that he only had to turn up to win.
That said I think Leonard did get a lot of points for being Sugar Ray Leonard.
I admire his talent but the Duran Leonard fight was scored closer than it was in my view to the point where some are convinced Leonard was robbed.
He did well in the 2nd Duran fight but not to the point at which it has been eulogised, it is a fight that slots well into a 3 minute highlight reel.
As for the Hearns draw!!!!
He was a great fighter and is in my top 20 but I would say that apart from Hearns 1, the judges really liked him.

[andrewcuff]

I never found Hagler a winner and have watched this fight dozens of times. The first time I watched it I had Leonard by a few points, but realistically after consideration and rewatches 115:113 Leonard is how I have it now.

Even the biggest Hagler nuthugger has to admit, he was far from impressive that night, he looked slow and missed a lot with his punches, he had very little defense (he was a bit of a goalkeeper to be honest).

There was no round that Hagler truely dominated and Leonard dazzled even in rounds that he lost. Hagler's cornerwork and gameplan was desperate. Who decided to send Hagler out orthodox for the first few rounds? And why were the Petronelli's not giving him the riot act towards the end of the fight between rounds, surely they must have known it was close? Even Gil Clancy commentating said that they were speaking to Hagler 'like it was an IBM meeting'!!!!

Hagler is my favourite boxer of all time and I will second that!

[JAB5239]

1. Hagler had one of, if not the best chin of all time. Hearns would not have knocked him out as the first round showed.

Tommy's broken hand was not the reason he was knocked out. Hagler was.

[donkim]

No I agree Hagler was awful, I think he seemed to think that he only had to turn up to win.
That said I think Leonard did get a lot of points for being Sugar Ray Leonard.
I admire his talent but the Duran Leonard fight was scored closer than it was in my view to the point where some are convinced Leonard was robbed.
He did well in the 2nd Duran fight but not to the point at which it has been eulogised, it is a fight that slots well into a 3 minute highlight reel.
As for the Hearns draw!!!!
He was a great fighter and is in my top 20 but I would say that apart from Hearns 1, the judges really liked him.

Nobody has ever claimed that Duran was robbed other than Dunce holding the opinion that he felt that Leonard won.The fight has been rewritten by Duran apologists as if it were a virtual shutout.

I do hope you're not suggesting that Duran was winning or deserved to be ahead before he "quit" in their rematch?


I didn't see the judges favoring Leonard too highly during the first fight with Hearns,and there were certain rounds in which Hearns took a battering and all three judges opted to score as a simple 10-9.


The only gift you could argue that Leonard was ever given,was in his rematch with Hearns and that was only because the knockdowns should have been decisive.Hearns was taking a battering in certain rounds in their rematch also to the point where a 10-8 round was just.

[Marcov]

Hagler was very fortunate that Hearns broke his famous right-hand in the opening round or Hagler was getting TKOd in 3rds.. Marvin Hagler is one of the most over-rated fighters of all times, Hagler had the oppotunity to fight 5`6ins Dwight Braxton but wanted no part of "The Camden Buzzsaw".. he chose Ray Leonard who was coming back after 3yrs out and Leonard whupped his ass

Where do you get all this stuff? For the record Hagler worked his way to the number 1 position the hard way(unlike nowdays). And when he was #1 he couldn't get a title shot! Ring ****zine started calling him the uncrowned champion. During one year he waited for a shot he defeated 5 top ten contenders(In one year)! that was amazing and unheard of today. He got his shot and they gave Vito a draw. So he went back and beat two more top ten contenders! Now days a fighter doesn't have to beat one contender to get a title shot. He won and held the unified title for years in dominating fashion. He beat the best of the best for years. Sure later in his career Duran and Leonard did good with him, but they are all time greats(IMO).

And Dwight Braxton who had changed his name to Dwight Muhammad Qawi years before the Leonard-Hagler fight was fighting as a cruiserweight for years before Leonard Hagler!

[boxing_great]

does Leonard deserve his atg position whatever that may be on people's top 10 ? he could have just as easily been the loser in the hagler fight, he really lost the 2nd fight against Hearns, and he lost to Duran.The 2nd time Duran quit because of some stomach injury or something..

[sonnyboyx2]

I'm a huge Duran fan but as well as Duran did Hagler won handily

He fought an incredibly dumb fight and still squeeked it in my view

No one ever knocked Hagler down so to predict a Hearns KO is a stretch.

Timeline again, he was limiting himself to one fight a year so had mandatory against Mugabi and the big $ fight against Leonard end of career.

We adding Hagler to your Lennox Lewis list is seems?

Didn't know he was ever due to fight Braxton, when? You can source this?

Agree I think he did underestimate Leonard, but Leonard whupped him?? People are still arguing about this bout 20 years later. Would hardly be the case in a whupping would it?

i would not call Haglers win over Duran `Handily`Hagler won by 1pt on all judges scorecards, he won it by winning the last round, after the final bell Hagler awaited the decision with his left-eye swollen shut and bleeding from the mouth, he looked over at Duran and Duran shouted to him "You aint no Marvelous".

If you think Hagler `squeeked` the fight then you was not watching the same fight as i watched... Leonard clearly won!

Juan Roldan floored Hagler... if Hearns had not broken his famous right-hand in the opening round he would have won via TKO in 3rds.. referee Richard Steele took Hagler over to the ringside doctor at the start of the 3rd such was the injuries Hagler recieved in the 1st round... so it is far from being a `stretch` to claim Hearns would have won via TKO

Mugabi was never Haglers mandatory... Mugabi moved up from Light-middle... Hagler v Leonard was never on the cards unto after the Mugabi fight.

No i am not adding Hagler to the Lewis list, Hagler was undisputed champion of the world for 7yrs where as Lewis abregated his responsibilities as undisputed champion by refusing to face the No1 contenders so was stripped of every belt... but if that is the only way you can have a snipe at me, then fire-away!

Dwight Braxton was light-heavyweight champion 1981-83 Marvin Hagler was middleweight champion 1980-87 ... many Ring ****zine, KO ****zine & Boxing Monthly fight publications from 81-83 had/have front cover topics of "Will Marvin move up and challenge The Camden Buzzsaw" it was a huge fight that fight-fans wanted to see, but Hagler wanted nothing to do with Braxton, instead he chose to fight Obelmejias (twice) Scypion, Lee, Hamsho, Antuofermo and light-weight Roberto Duran.
Source :-- check Ebay for Ring, KO ****zines from 81-83 i am sure you will come across this match-up many times over...

The way i seen Hagler vs Leonard it was a whupping!... the way ringside reporters like Gil Clancy, Colin Hart & Reg Gutteridge seen it, it was a whupping.

[donkim]

Michael Spinks was willing to fight Hagler at a catchweight,no answer from the Hagler camp.

does Leonard deserve his atg position whatever that may be on people's top 10 ? he could have just as easily been the loser in the hagler fight, he really lost the 2nd fight against Hearns, and he lost to Duran.The 2nd time Duran quit because of some stomach injury or something..

Or something indeed.This topic is probably a little advanced for you.