Marciano one mans opinion

[Kid Achilles]

like Marciano who basically fought 160 to 200 pound white fighters for the most part of his career.If you cant comprehend no 180 pound man could handle a 220 plus pound mans punch or hurt hims with his punch then as i said you are eithter ******ed or racist.

**** this ****. You're the biggest moron on the site with an ignorance bordering on ******ation. Marciano never fought a 160 lb fighter in his professional career. Not one. The vast majority of his opponents outweighed him, several were 220, and one was 254 pounds to his 183. He made a career out of beating bigger, more skilled men. That's the facts. Learn them or shut the **** up.

You put Foreman on a pedastal but he was dropped by light hitting Jimmy Young. Yes, it was mostly due to exhaustion but what does that tell you about Foreman's chances in the later rounds against the best conditioned heavyweight of all time? As for Frazier, the guy had a solid chin but was nearly put away by Bonavena who was a crude and good but not great puncher. No better than Walcott, and not better than Rex Layne. Just because Foreman bounced Joe all over the ring does not mean he'd do the same with Marciano who had an incredible constitution and could be hurt one second and completely clear headed the next.

Marciano and Frazier were two very different fighters. Marciano hit harder with both hands, had a better chin, and honestly even better endurance if you ask me. Frazier was cagiery than he is remembered for but the Rock wasn't that easy to hit clean either. I doubt you've ever even seen a Marciano fight from start to finish. You likely go by what your racist father told you. He's still bitter after losing all that money against Marciano back in the 50's.

[uncle_rico]

hearns, i aint ******ed and i aint a racist
and i aint on no one's balls.
the fighters we're talking about will never fight,
so, all we have is speculation, you can't get upset
when someone disagrees with you, cuz there is no right
answer, it's just speculation.
i personally believe the older heavies were much better than
todays, black and white.
for example, i think joe louis tears lennex louis apart.
now, if louis was white would my comment make me a racist?
c'mon man...
todays heavies are statues. that's my point.
i think size is overrated with heavy weights.
primo carnera, 6'6 260. a ****in monster,
even by todays standards would be a huge heavy.
you wouldnt say he's better than louis or marciano would you?
see where i'm going with this?
now, if you're arguing that at 6'6 260 carnera was a bum
cuz he's white and that if he was black would have dominated,
well, then you're the racist...

consider this, if tarver and jones never fought, or if johnson
and jones never fought and jones retired after
beating ruiz, what would people say about those
two "hypothetical" fights?
well, i'm a huge roy fan, so, i woulda said,
"are you nuts? tarver and johnson? those two guys are clowns compared to roy.
easy knock outs for roy in both fights".
well, as we both know, both those guys beat roy.

yes, a prime roy beats those guys easy, i totally agree, but
the point is if they never fought and someone said,
"i wonder about a fight between roy at the end of his career vs a prime tarver"
no one, i mean no one, not one person, would pick tarver.
yet, look what happened...

my point is simply this, keep an open mind cuz you never know...

more importantly, i think you need to get off the "black and white" nonesense,
cuz it has nothing to do with the discussion.
if you wanna say marciano was never really tested,
and he was a small heavyweight, that's fine.
if you wanna argue that todays athletes are bigger
and stronger than in the past (and happen to be predominantly black),
that's fine too. those are valid points.

but race has nothing to do with it.
do you think frazier can beat monsters like mcline?
how bout marciano?
if you're answer isn't "yes" to both,
then it's you who has the problem with race.

your original posts had some good points in it,
but now you're gettin emotional, like a little *****.
for real. just take it easy man.

ultimately, my opinion is, i think frazier destroys todays heavies,
and i think marciano is just as good or better than frazier,
so obviously i think marciano beats todays heavies, black and white.
i don't think the 10lb diff between marciano and frazier means anything at all.

now, your comment about frazier and foreman, yeah, joe got his ass handed to him and so would *anyone* if they fought foreman that way. if ali fought foreman the way frazier fought foreman, ali would have lost too!
ali beat foreman using his head not his size or strength. i think frazier could have done the same with a better fight plan, and maybe too could have marciano.

klitchko is a clown, so is mesi. marciano kills both those guys,
let's not discuss those guys.
plenty of other "old school" heavy weights, black and white,
destroys todays heavies.

so, leaving race out of this, your original post was that
you thought rocky did what he had to do during the time
he fought, but ultimately is overrated in an hystorical sense.
that's a fair comment, but being overrated is not the same
as saying he'd lose to tyson or tua. marciano would kill
both those guys. if marciano was black or frazier was
white would your opinions of them and who they could beat
change?

the fact is, frazier fought in what people call "the golden age of heavyweights".
so, historically, you have to rank him higher than marciano.
as a matter of fact, you have to rank him higher than holyfield even tho
holyfield in his prime prolly could have beat frazier 2 out of 3 times.
do, i believe rock could beat frazier and vice versa? sure, it could go either way,
but would i rank marciano ahead of frazier? no, cuz frazier fought
and beat the best and marciano didnt.
but again, race has nothing to do with it.

[nohero]

See the thing about Rocky is that he always overcame his opponent when the going got tough. How can you possibly even begin to think you know what it takes or who it takes to beat Rocky when no one has ever done it? You can pick out all the flaws you want and boost up all your other heroes but each and every one of the other fighters you mentioned have lost, therefore you can easily say what it takes to beat them just by referencing their opponents' performances during those losses. With Rocky you can't say that someone is too fast (Archie Moore was not called the mongoose cause he liked to kill snakes) or too big (Rocky beat an undefeated 250 lb man very early in his career and sent him into retirement) or too technically good (Joe Louis at 37 is a better technical boxer than 99.9% of all fighters in history). No one has ever been too fast or too big or too good for Rocky and without that proof that someone could be better than him, you have no argument. With today's training and technological advances coupled with Rocky's legendary work ethic and determination he would easily be 200lbs+ and would ransack the heavyweight division like they were amateurs. You underestimate him like each of his opponents did...

[tommyhearns804]

Lol Marciano is white you are white so of course you are going to be biased toward him.Marciano never fought a 160 pound fighter?Kid Achillies you have to be the biggest racist here or the biggest moron.Again Moore was a natural middleweight and so was Charles.Do you know how much a middleweight weighs?150 to 160 pounds.
The biggest fighter Marciano fought was Jerry Jackson a big fat tub of lard but i guess since Maricano fought him Jackson must of been better than any other fighter who ever lived right?Marciano was a 180 pound white fighter who fought basically 180 pound white fighters.
Every time Marciano fought a black fighter no matter how small they were they either dropped him or gave him the fight of his life.Niether of these black guys were true heavyweights.Basically middleweights to cruiserweight.Most of these guys were pushing 40 Moore had been down more than 30 times in his career and knocked out at least 10 a couple in the first round.Walcott had 15 plus loses when he fought Marciano and so did Charles but to try to validate that Maricano fought top fighters they are built up .
Awww Foreman was knocked down by Young your point being?Foreman went down because he was dead tired ...after the fight he was walking about butt naked claiming he seen god.Everybody here knows Foreman has one of the best chins in boxing history.Marciano is better than Frazier?At doing what ?Ducking black guys until they are almost 40?Wait at fighting natural middleweights like Moore and being knocked down with one punch?Or is it taking 9 round to knock out a 45 year old man who was knocked out by middleweights before but yet Maricano had to keep knocking Moore down over and over before he finally stayed down.Frazier fought legendary fighters in their primes.Foreman,Ali,Quarry,Bonevena.Who did Maricano fight?Big Bill Wilson and a bunch of other no named low level fighters.
Maricano is the most unskilled person to ever be called heavyweight champion.The man was only 180 pounds but his hand and foot speed was slower than any other heavyweight champion in mordern boxing history.If you want to talk about wide punches just watch how Marciano threw his punches.
Maricano's chin is highly overrated.He was knocked down by a middleweight with one punch.How many people think Foreman,Tyson,Frazier,Bower,Tua ect could be knocked down with one punch by a 45 year old middleweight?If a middleweight could drop him with one punch then can you imagine what a 230 pound man who could punch would do to Marciano?
Maricano's punching power is overrated.Who did he knock out worth mentioning?Just past their prime fighters who all had glass chins.Most of the other fighters he knocked out were light heavyweights.Look at Holyfields record when he was at cruiserweight.His ko percenatage was just as high as Marciano's and Holyfield didnt pile up his ko's fighting bums like Marciano did and nor did Holyfield fight in a era where he could use little gloves like Marciano wore.
When Holyfield moved up to fight 230 pound fighters what happeened?His power vanished.You know why?Because Holyfield isnt a true heavyweight and nor was Maricano so the same would of happened to him.The only difference was Holyfield didnt just fight small white guys he knew he could beat like Marciano did so Holyfields power at 190 pounds was actually real.
Holyfield also had skill.So he could counter punch and move and do other things besides try to go for the knock out.Marciano's goal was to come in and wing punches against bums until they went down.Trying this against the Tysons of the world would of gotten his face smashed in.
Let me say this first i know most of you whites aren't racist or biased at all.But the ones who are racist really take their ******ity to far.No man in sports history is built up like Marciano is.Marciano was a average fighter at best who was lucky he could be only 180 pounds and fight other 180 pounds but yet be considered a great heavyweight when he wasn't a heavyweight and he didnt fight heavyweights.Marciano was luck to be in a era where you could just fight white guys for the most part of your career ducking any black man you knew could beat you until they got really old.Maricano is lucky to fight in a era where the mafia controlled boxing .
Maricano isnt a top anything heavyweight because the man wasnt a heavyweight just a slow unskilled cruiserweight.

[rocco1252]

Ali vs Marciano, computer fight who won? There you go

[Troy Fine]

listen im tired of these dumb basards that have only seen like 2 of marciano's fights and think they know the world, listen ali didnt really have that much better of competion it was just he was famous so they got famous, and then all of a sudden they fight better? Charles i believe would of beat any of ali's opponenets you know how i know becuase he was amazing i watch him fight he has skill i watch a forman or frazier though they are badass arent that skilled and they were unorthodox as hell

[tommyhearns804]

Lol Foreman and Frazier were unskilled but Maricano is skilled?Yeah only to racist white guys who have to pull white fighters out of their ass all the time.I seen at least 10 or Maricano's fights child.He wasn't skilled period.No heavyweight fighter who ever won the title was as unskilled as Maricano.
Lol and Rico just dont make anymore post period.Maricano would kill Tua?That comment makes you the most racist guy i ever seen make a post in any boxing forum.Maricano had problems knocking out Moore a glass chin middleweight who was knocked out at least 10 times in his career and knocked down at least 30 more.But some how Maricano would knock out Tua?A man who never been down as a pro.A man who fights skilled 230 plus pound men who can punch but just walks through their punches as if they were nothing.Foreman is my favorite heavyweight and i can't even imagine him putting Tua down.
Your ******ity is alarming.Marciano was knocked down by both Walcott and Moore with one punch.Tua is a far better puncher than Moore or Walcott could ever dream of becoming.Tua would literally kill Marciano.If Maricano got out of one round with Tua it would be the biggest shock in boxing history.
Vitali Klitchko has never been down as a pro and if far more skilled than Tua who is far more skilled than Marciano.Vitali is 6'8 250 pounds and has fought guys like Lewis who is about what 6'5 240 pounds and never been down but yeah if he fouht a 5'9 180 pound slow little cruiserweight he would be destroyed right?
Let me try to break this down for you slow again since it seems when somebody mentions how pathetic Maricano was it hurts your little feelings.How many people of this post think Foster could knock out guys like Tyson,Frazier,Foreman ect ect ect?As a light heavyweight Foster was never hurt and his power was incredible.Foster is only about 5 or so pounds smaller than Maricano was and is far more skilled.What happened when Foster moved up?He was knocked out by every decent fighter he fought right?So what makes Marciano so special?
Lets do another example.Micheal Spinks.He too was a light heavyweight only a few pounds lighter than Maricano.He did more than Foster did at heavyweight but not much more.He fought Holmes a guy with no punch and robbed Holmes twice,He beat Cooney when Cooney was strong out on *******,And then Tyson beat the shyt out of him.
Moorer is the last example.As a light heavyweight he knocked out everybody he faced which means he could punch at that weight class.Moorer was never hurt period as a light heavyweight.The only fighters to hurt Moorer were people naturally alot bigger than him.Moorer is very skilled by did that matter when he fought guys who were bigger and stronger than he was?Moorer didn't keep knocking out his opponents so again why would Maricano be able to do this?
The only reason i can think of is his skin color.Whites need to put Marciano on a pedistal and blacks need to put fighters like Tyson on a pedistal.Maricano fans will never get that Marciano isn't a heavyweight period.95 percent of the guys he fought were either cruiserweights or light heavyweights.You can't compare 180 pound man who fights 180 pound men to guys who fight 230 plus pound fighters.Tyson fans will never get that Tyson never beat any world class fighters in his prime.They will never get that Tyson was a coward who was destroyed everytime he faced somebody who didnt have a glass chin or were not afraid of him.
I could try to explain this to you until i am blue in the face but you will never get it.If you people keep being dumb i will find you all and beat you right in the head.

[DMikeS4321]

I've watched many Marciano tapes and your post is the most accurate reflection of the kind of fighter he was. Rocky was what Mike Tyson was SUPPOSED to be, a FREAKISHLY strong heavyweight in a smaller frame, someone whose punching power was WAY out of proportion to his size and weight. Ali did need to recover after an exhibition match with Rocky, and Marciano was deep into his 40's, having done only a little warm-up before the filming of their famous "computer scored" fight, which Rocky won. If I remember correctly, Ali, with all his ego, still said he would not have wanted to face Rocky in his prime. There was no bull**** from Ali about Marciano, just respect, and it wasn't because Ali was overly polite.

[DMikeS4321]

Hearns,

You said:

"Number 2 Joe Louis was overrated.And just becuase he said he couldnt beat Marciano in his prime means what?Louis was only 200 pounds himself and had a glass chin."

So, even Joe Louis was punk??

"And Louis said in the late 70's that Foreman was the best heavyweight he ever seen."

What happened to Foreman then, when he fought Ali??

"And Ali never said Marciano was tough at 45."

The hell he didn't!! It was no secret that the "exhibition" between the two was brutal, and Ali (and his camp) were clear about it afterward. I saw Ali speak about Marciano after their encounter, and there was no bluff, no BS, just respect.

"And if he did it was to be nice.Marciano is white.If Ali bad mouthed a white fighter like Marciano the press would of ripped him."

Now we all know you've been smoking too much crack. Ali didn't give a **** about what the press said about him. He had already been ripped about his refusal to go to war, and he sure wasn't shy about his Nation of Islam affiliation. You are grasping as straws here...

Put down the pipe, look up some Maricano fight tapes and read about some of the things he did to his opponents. An earlier post mentioned teeth driven into gums, broken jaws, dislocated shoulders. Today's heavyweights don't fight like that; they just aren't that tough. This point is obvious given the 12 round limit; the pacing and drive was different in those days, and the fighters just had to be tougher. Remember when football players used leather helmets with no faceguards? Remember when hockey goalies didn't wear masks? Same thing.

Best Regards

[Popeye]

he's still rated in the top 5 in my book, easily, tough guy...helluva puncher....