Marciano one mans opinion

[kmac]

Hard to rank any fighters of different generations. He dominated his and two good opponents with Charles and Walcott. I think he is a top five heavy of all time

[karlygash]

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[butterfly1964]

I do believe marciano is overrated. but he is not as bad as tommyhearns804 makes him out to be.

marciano would beat any fighter today in a boxing match, and do it handily. no way toney a natural middleweight or lighthw would beat him. and as for ruiz, he would get pounded. valeuv would be handled with ease and be stopped early. tua would lose a md or ud, i doubt he has the skills to beat the rock.

[RockyMarcianofan00]

I do believe marciano is overrated. but he is not as bad as tommyhearns804 makes him out to be.

marciano would beat any fighter today in a boxing match, and do it handily. no way toney a natural middleweight or lighthw would beat him. and as for ruiz, he would get pounded. valeuv would be handled with ease and be stopped early. tua would lose a md or ud, i doubt he has the skills to beat the rock.

he'd beat Many (not all persay) fighters from all era's its just they wouldn't be as easy as bloated middleweights

[Da Iceman]

I do believe marciano is overrated. but he is not as bad as tommyhearns804 makes him out to be.

marciano would beat any fighter today in a boxing match, and do it handily. no way toney a natural middleweight or lighthw would beat him. and as for ruiz, he would get pounded. valeuv would be handled with ease and be stopped early. tua would lose a md or ud, i doubt he has the skills to beat the rock.

nice to see you own up

[smasher]

Marciano: One man's opinion

22.10.03 - By Robert Bennett - I gave great respect for the achievements of Rocky Marciano. A champion can do no more then defeat the fighters placed in front of him, and make sure those fighters are the best available. Rocky Marciano did that, and regardless of the relative strength or weakness of a division in any era, a man that can do that is worthy of praise. How much praise is due however, is the question I pose.

Marciano is often ranked inside the top ten heavyweights of all time by various fans and writers, but one must wonder on what basis he is ranked. A record of 49-0 is impressive indeed but his record was only allowed to run to such extents because he was shut out of the title picture for so long. I rather imagine many a fighter in history would have also taken his record into the forties and fifties without loss if he wasn't fighting the cream of the division.

His first victory over a legitimate contender did not come until his 25th fight against Carmine Vingo. By the time he reached 40-0, Marciano had only four legitimate contenders on his resume, and one of those was the sad swansong of the great Joe Louis. Another was Roland LaStarza, who is famous for losing the barest of decisions to Marciano in a fight many observers felt he should have won. The other two fighters were Vingo of course, and Rex Layne, neither of which rate barely a mention in historical circles.

In stark comparison, Evander Holyfield was thrust into the top of the sport by his twelth fight, and remained undefeated until his 29th fight. The staggering difference is that by the time of his first defeat, Holyfield had faced and defeated at least fifteen contenders who were as good or better then the four Marciano had defeated by forty fights, and yet Holyfield himself struggles for recognition inside the top ten because unlike Marciano, he does not have the benefit of an undefeated record aiding his abilities in the eyes of many observers. As for Marciano's magical '0', that only remained because of the relatively short period of time that Marciano spent fighting at the top of the division. Count them eight fights, a heavyweight title eliminator and seven title fights. There are literally dozens of heavyweights who have remained active at the top for longer than that.

Whether intentional or not, Marciano was protected in much the same way that a Joe Mesi now is. Whether Mesi is a genuine talent is yet to be proven, but it is amazing that Marciano's record does not draw as much criticism as todays protected prospects. It is taboo, almost blasphemous to criticise the quality and depth of the names on Rocky's winlist, because of the mythical status that has been heaped upon his 'world record' 49-0.

Seven successful title fights is commendable, but when broken down not as impressive as many of his contemporaries. His two biggest name victims during his title reign were two victories each over Ezzard Charles and Jersey Joe Walcott. Charles was done as a top level fighter, as evidenced by the two decisions he dropped in the year before his first Marciano fight, and a little after a year after the second fight, had dropped a further four fights. As for Walcott, 23 years and 70 fights after his pro debut, many would have you believe that he remained a force to be reckoned with. No one is denying that Walcott was cagey and skillful, even in his advanced age, but putting him on a pedestal to lift the significance of Rocky's wins over him is a joke. No champion in history enjoyed the sort of longetivity attributed to Walcott, and Marciano was in danger of being defeated by both Walcott and Charles at some stage.

The trouble Marciano had with fighters like Walcott, Charles and LaStarza leads me to believe that a fighter like Larry Holmes would have cut him up with his piston jab and stopped him. And due to both size and skill, Foreman, would have decimated him. And to those that have fantasised about it, Marciano would have been no match for Muhammad Ali. Rocky struggled against far lesser fighters than Ali, and would not have been able to deal with the combination of speed, skill, power and smarts that felled more great heavyweights than any fighter before or after him.

Rocky Marciano, skilled and powerful, but vastly overrated in a historical sense.

I agree with most of this. I altered the last paragraph on the article to suit my opinion. Jones, Toney and Klitchko is a bit of a stretch while I'm undecided abot Lewis and Bowe.

[RockyMarcianofan00]

I agree with most of this. I altered the last paragraph on the article to suit my opinion. Jones, Toney and Klitchko is a bit of a stretch while I'm undecided abot Lewis and Bowe.

hey all i can say is that he beat who they put in front of him and the only "controversial decision" had a reason for it, also wouldn't have happened in 70's because they would have stopped the fight against vingo and then he would have trained harder for lastarza and it wouldn't have been controversial

i mean most of the fights he had he easily won, so can't ask for much more

[smasher]

hey all i can say is that he beat who they put in front of him and the only "controversial decision" had a reason for it, also wouldn't have happened in 70's because they would have stopped the fight against vingo and then he would have trained harder for lastarza and it wouldn't have been controversial

i mean most of the fights he had he easily won, so can't ask for much more

You can only beat who they put in front of you and Marciano did just that.

[Heckler]

I'll admit it, I'm a Rocky fan. Why, because despite all of his weaknesses, he found a way to win.

You know what, he fought the top opposition in his final 8 fights and won them all. No tune ups or ducking fights. In all rocky rematchs he dominated the fights and after that anyone up against Rock would be unfair. There was no one left to fight and little money to make in rematchs you dominate. He said he had a few more fights left in him but no one to fight.

In the end, I think the top heavies have a good chance at beating Rocky the first time on points because Rocky was a slow starter, but in rematchs Rocky gets them all.

Edit: You can't use Rocky's size to determine if he wins or not. You got to match up his style. You have to think shorter Joe Frazier with a little more power in the body punchs and a stonger right hand. Rocky has a high work rate in about 20 punchs a round and that was why he weighed 185, because he had great stamina. Rocky could gain weight but didn't need too, at 185 because he had great punching power from leavrage. Rocky's size as makes him hard to hit and his reach doesn't matter fights, because of his swarmer style. He was a slow starter and needed 15th rounds. With 12 round fights he would get decisioned more.


RJJ, has skills and speed but his punches wouldn't hurt Rocky. So I think Rocky would get knock down a few times but not respect RJJ's power, walk thru one of the punchs and knock him out in the mid-late rounds.

Lewis would be killed against a hard hitting active fighter because he would not be able to hide behind that jab of his for 12 rounds. Lewis might get a knock down or two but Rocky gets up fired up, tires out Lewis in the late rounds and find his mark on that weak jaw eventually.

Foreman, He might lose because Frazier and Rocky had similiar fight style. Frazier was tough as well. On paper Foreman has the edge.

Frazier, Rocky fought the same style and was better at it, tougher, and hit harder. Rocky gets the nod

Vitali klitskho, who he win against? Look at who beat him? How many hall of famers has he won against? Yeah he has size but that makes him a lot slower and a bigger target for Rocky. You think Klitskho good fighting on the inside? Hell, no

Ali, when Rocky was 45 and Ali was 26, Ali got knockd down against Rocky with a single body shot in an exhibition match. He had a hard time even hitting Rocky and keeping him away with his jab for a one min round. Ali was out of shape though but still in his prime while Rocky was 12 years removed from boxing.
Edit: Ali had problems against Frazier who had the same style as Marciano, short and a swarmer. Frazier should've won 2/3 and Marciano had a little more power in both hands. Marciano wins 2/3.

Holmes, The jab would be enough to stop Rocky. Late round stoppage. EDIT: I think Holmes has a good chance at pulling a decision as well if he doesn't get TKO or stoppage on cuts. Rocky would win in a 15 round fight but not 12 rounder. Rematch, Rocky wins all the way, mid round KO. Rocky figure out te jab by then.

Edit: Toney has a a great defense but Archie moore was known for a great, maybe greatest defense. That's why he had such a long career. Rocky win against Toney like he did against Moore. Toney's defense is not that good for a combo puncher like Rocky with power in both hands. Toney have to bring both hands up and lack the offense to keep Rocky away.

Sorry the 'marciano dropped ali' is a total myth. Ali beat Frazier twice, without a doubt. Beat him in manila, not only did he outpoint him (clearly IMO) in the 2nd fight he should of knocked him down int he 2nd round, the ref ****ed it up. There is not one historian on the planet i have come acreoss, or read opinions from that thinks marciano would beat Ali in a trilogy. Marciano wasn't great defensively, didn't move aswell as Frazier, and didn't have the handspeed or accuracy to neutralise Ali on the inside when he would OCASSIONALLY get on the inside. Any person that thinks clearly should conclude Ali would outpoint rocky or stop him on cuts at 2/3 times if not 3/3 times. Marciano barely beat Walcott, hes not going to beat Ali 2/3. Marciano was a great fighter and definately a top 10 if not 5, but probably the most overrated fighter ever. He fought nobody at the peak of their powers. Marciano although usually extremely effective with it, had a very simplistic style and Ali would find too many ways to adapt and neutralise him. The words of a wise historian 'Ali would be too fast and fancy for the rock', simplistic arguement but true.

[Southpaw Stinger]

Sorry the 'marciano dropped ali' is a total myth. Ali beat Frazier twice, without a doubt. Beat him in manila, not only did he outpoint him (clearly IMO) in the 2nd fight he should of knocked him down int he 2nd round, the ref ****ed it up. There is not one historian on the planet i have come acreoss, or read opinions from that thinks marciano would beat Ali in a trilogy. Marciano wasn't great defensively, didn't move aswell as Frazier, and didn't have the handspeed or accuracy to neutralise Ali on the inside when he would OCASSIONALLY get on the inside. Any person that thinks clearly should conclude Ali would outpoint rocky or stop him on cuts at 2/3 times if not 3/3 times. Marciano barely beat Walcott, hes not going to beat Ali 2/3. Marciano was a great fighter and definately a top 10 if not 5, but probably the most overrated fighter ever. He fought nobody at the peak of their powers. Marciano although usually extremely effective with it, had a very simplistic style and Ali would find too many ways to adapt and neutralise him. The words of a wise historian 'Ali would be too fast and fancy for the rock', simplistic arguement but true.

Very true!

And a great article by tommyhearns