Marciano one mans opinion

[tommyhearns804]

Lol did i ask you to follow me from post to post?Some simple minded racist white boy who lives in the past.I will be comic relief while my black race rules boxing.You can live in the 50's when 180 pound pieces of trash could duck black fighters until they were 40.You can live in the past when the mafia contolled boxing.
I will continue to live in 2005 while all of the top pound for pound boxers are black or mexican or puerto rican.I could care less what you thin.You arent worth it.Why try to bother explaining to a racist?Or are you just mentally ******ed?If in your little brain being white makes you a better boxer then great for you.If you are ****** enough to think some 180 pound bum could compete with my 230 pound plus black heavyweights then that is great for you as well.
But when you see a post made by me Tommyhearns804 dont enter it.I make post for the guys who come here who arent racist and know their boxing.I could care less what trash like you type here.But you do care about me.That is why you are respondingto my post.But i am done here.I dont go to post you make to began with so you dont have to worry about me going there.So if you have half a brain which i know you dont then dont come to my post.

[ricecrispi]

Moore wasn't a natural middlewight. Thats 160 range. He was 175-195 pound range for plus 10 years so he was lighthheavy to cruiserweight.
That's like saying Thomas Hearns is a natural welterwight because thats where he started..... Peralta foughts bums and was 180-200. Lyle lost to top competetion in the 70s but was an excellent B+ level fighter. He determined if you were top ranked material.

To the real point
BTW
I seen plenty black guys being beat by white guys and vice versa. You need to get out more. One of my old buddies who I trained with is Quetin "Rampage" Jackson. My ***** is black and down and dirty as it gets. About 6 months ago he got knocked out cold and was out for 10 mins in a rematch against the champ, a brazilian "white dude". I didn't anyone could do it to my boy, I seen him take 3-4 kicks to the head and shake it off. Most guys are down on the first one. Anyways, My boy beats whites, blacks, japanese, brazilian, mexican, or who ever wants to fight him. He's was street brawler/werstler turned pro fighter. I was a boxing amateur and help him learn some defense and a jab. The funny thing was only 130 lbs back than and he's an easy 210 but his fundamentals where so bad I had to help him.

BTW,
I'm asian, read the name foo. Name like that and you think i'm white. Hell no I ain't white. I eat rice crispies, an asian rice snack before americans remade it. Remember rice, Asians eat it, a lot.

My trainer was white and a golden gloves middlewieght winner from Brockton, sound familiar? Brockton, Hagler sound familiar? My trainer was Hagler's occasional sparring partner at uncle P's gym in Brockton. Marciano went to the same gym in Brockton.

BTW
I don't like Marciano because he 's white, I would give a **** if he was black, mexican, european or like tiger woods. I like Marciano for what he represented in term of the old saying you should know if you from the ******. It's not the size of dog in the fight, it's the size the fight in the dog. I respect fighters for there skills and accomplishments in the ring not there skin. I know about Marciano being Italian and the Mob trying to fixing fights. Fixed fights happened in the 40's, 50's 60's, 70's ,80's, 90's, and now.
Marciano hated it because it took away from what he worked hard for. He's a working class man and worked hard to win fights. I heard how strong he was and he's training regiment. He's no ***** like you make him out to be. Go buy his fights on dvd and watch the beating he took.

BTW
You and "your other than foreman all my favorite atheletes are white." Please man, like we can't see past your ****. I bet you name more black guys than white anyways. They are just more black atheletes in modern sports so it's very hard to do.

[gravity62]

Ali HATED WHITE PEOPLE back in those days. He thought they should all be bombed and killed. You think he cared about the press.

Ali didn't hate all white people, he felt opressed by some whites (big difference) and felt that way with good reason. How could he hate all whites when his trainer, Angelo Dundee, was white. And for the record, Ali did care about his image, probably moreso than any other fighter in history. And I do believe he was trying to be respectful to a fighter like Marciano.

Walcott was the Ali predecessor. Ali molded himself after him. The headmovement and the footwork. Walcott was so good it could've been Walcott or Joe Louis but he got sick and was in poverty so he couldn't fight.

Actually Ali molded himself after Sugar Ray Robinson not Joe Walcott. Walcott wasn't any where near as skilled a fighter as Ali or Robinson. Ali was totally against fighting flat-footed which Walcott certainly was when he fought. Ali never liked that style so the above quote is just flat out wrong.

Edit: I didn't read any of the posts after the one I quoted.

[ricecrispi]

BTW I can go anywhere I want and type what i want. You scared of the TRUTH. Is that what it is? I try to bring the truth and you just scared that your mind can't accept this black and white thing in your head.

You call me a racist but you say black this, white this, black this, white this for the entire post. 2-3 pages

I mention it once and you go crying about how I'm racist. Typical of a racist to say that. Can't even see there own flaws and go point the same flaw that they think they see in other people.
All I got to say about that is. Takes one to know one and you are wrong about me. If i hate on some one, it's because i hate them not because of of some skin pigment.

[ricecrispi]

Ali didn't hate all white people, he felt opressed by some whites and with good reason. How could he hate all whites when his trainer, Angelo Dundee, was white. And for the record, Ali did care about his image, probably moreso than any other fighter in history. And I do believe he was trying to be respectful to a fighter like Marciano.

Actually Ali molded himself after Sugar Ray Robinson not Joe Walcott. Walcott was no where near as skilled a fighter as Ali or Robinson. Ali was totally against fighting flat-footed which certainly Walcott was when he fought. Ali never liked that style so the above quote is just flat out wrong.

Ali's changed through te years and a lot of journalistic writing cleansed his past. You forget the crew he hung out with. The Nation of Islam. What they represented and preached about whites being bomb and going to war was being preached in sermons Ali was attending! They were kinda **** like. I know Angelo was white but he felt that way about "white people" in general and viewed the public in those terms.

I agree on Walcott being not an exact mold, but the shuffle? I was kinda pissed about Hearns calling walcott a bum. Ali took a couple of things from several previous heavies. Walcott was skilled, enough to match Joe Louis. He's no Sugar Ray Robinson or Ali that's for sure.

[dumb donnie]

Interesting discussion, thanks.

[Kid Achilles]

Walcott was extremely skilled. Yes he did ocassionally fight flat footed but so did Louis and often so does James Toney. Boxing skill is not limited to just dancing around and jabbing.

[DudeManGuy216]

Lol kid number one Marciano fought 155 pound fighters.Moore was a natural middleweight and so was Charles.They both gained weight when they got older but they were both still middleweights.

Rocky Marciano never fought a guy below 170 pounds. The heaviest fighter he fought was 254 pounds,the result, knockout in round 1, proving weight is not the only thing that matters as you seem to believe.

Ezzard Charles started fighting in the 160s but 10 years before meeting Marciano he fought between 170 and 180 pounds. five years before fighting Marciano he fought between 180 and 190 pounds, so i think he was at a good fighting weight.Also if he is such a natural middlewight wouldn't he have gone for that title or the lightheavyweight title but he didn't,the only title he fought for was the heavyweight title. He obviously was in great shape for the Rocky fight as he became the first and only man to make the Rock go the 15 round distance. He isn't the bum you're trying to make him out to be as he fought the greatest fighters of his era and beat them all. Those include Archie Moore,Joey Maxim, Joe Louis, Rex Layne, and Jersey Joe Walcott, with wins over all them. Marciano agreed to saying his fights with Charles were the most painful.Charles was only 2 years older than Marciano, still in his age group.In Charles 123 fights, 20 year career most of his 25 losses came in his last 4 years.

Archie Moore had a very long career starting in the 160s gradually moving between weights of 170 to 190 pounds. Even though he was older than Marciano by about 10 years,he was the one who campaigned for this fight whle rocky was getting ready to retire.In 222 fights he only lost 24 times, 3 of those losses came after he fought Marciano ,two being to future world champions Floyd Patterson and Muhammed Ali. His 145 knockouts is a world record.

You trying put down Rocky by saying his opposition was crappy when they were all time greats you don't know or care about. You say Rocky fought small guys but he was the smallest of all with guys usually outweighing him.He stayed in the 180 range because he was comfortable their and unlike todays heavyweights he didn't gain 10 to 20 pounds for their next fight, gaining 5 pounds at most.I think everything you said sas proven wrong already so I can stop.

[uncle_rico]

i don't think it's about race...

i think the heart of the matter is, hearns thinks 180+ lbs guys, can't knock out a 230+ lbs guys, black or white? is that correct?
hearns, feel free to correct me if i'm wrong about the point you're trying to make, but i think that's it.
so hearns, you would argue that marciano would be knocked out by klitchko and frazier would be knocked out by lewis?
if that's the case, then i disagree.
first, i think older fighters were tougher than todays fighters
(black and white).
look at guys like sugar ray robinson and jake lamotta.
they were animals who would destroy anyone today from
140 - 160.
second, obviously weight matters (otherwise why would boxing have weight classes?), but for heavies, i think it's overrated.
the day roy beat ruiz, he would have beat lewis and klitchko and mcline, all guys with what, 50 - 75lbs on roy at his heaviest?

but to help throw race out the window, let's consider this:
i think frazier and marciano are extremely similar. personally, i think marciano was slightly "better". (by better i mean a harder puncher and took less punishment.) now, some may say frazier was a little better, he fought great fighters and beat the best, some would say the rock was better, but either way, they are very very similar fighters. if you throw color out the window, i think most people would agree they were about the same.

now, it's no secret joe would gladly take 3 in order to give you 1, but against guys like foreman, that just doesn't work.
so, since i consider them the same kind of fighter, i'd say if marciano fought foreman the way frasier did, then the rock woulda lost as well.
ali beat foreman cuz he was able to outsmart him.
i think if frasier would have boxed and countered and tried to
get foreman into the later rounds, he could have beat foreman,
and i think if the rock did the same, he could beat foreman as well.
so, i think if the smaller fighter has the right plan, they can beat an equally skilled bigger guy.
notice i said "equally skilled". fraziano (frazier and marciano), would destroy guys like joe mesi and rid**** bowe, even without the right plan
even those guys are huge.

frazier fought ali at what 200? 205? ali was what, 210? (the first time they fought) and they'd destroy today's heavies.

again, i think weight at the heavyweight level is overrated.
i believe fraziano could beat any of todays heavies.
i believe fraziano would destroy lewis but have more trouble
with a younger, lighter, more mobile holyfield.
i believe fraziano would destroy both klitchsco's.

50lbs from 150 to 200 is a big diff, but not so much from 200 to 250.
it's not a race thing, it's about styles and smarts.

i like fraziano over any of todays heavies.

[tommyhearns804]

Cute post Rico but you are comparing 200 pound black fighters like Frazier who fought 200 plus pound black fighters like Foreman Ali ect ect to a 180 pound fighter like Marciano who basically fought 160 to 200 pound white fighters for the most part of his career.If you cant comprehend no 180 pound man could handle a 220 plus pound mans punch or hurt hims with his punch then as i said you are eithter ******ed or racist.Name another 180 pound fighter that you think could move up to heavyweight and fight the stile Marciano had and do anything?You cant.You know why?Because Marciano is white and we all know whites are better than blacks at every thing right?Marciano was a average crusierweight who fought middleweights to crusierweights.He isnt a top 10 heavyweight or a top 100 heavyweight.Guys like Peters would rip his head off and handed it to him.People like a prime Jones would box his ass off.I never seen a more overrated athelete in my life time.How tough you think he is has nothing to do with him beating 220 plus pound guys.As i said before wasnt Frazier tough?Didnt he have alot of heart and balls?But did that matter when he fought Foreman?Nope.Foreman was to big and powerful for him.Frazier was much bigger and stronger than Marciano and Frazier wasnt a big heavyweight.And based on some of you people Foreman was the worse boxer ever.So imagine what a good figher would do to people like Maricano?
Get off this mans balls.If you want to pick a fighter because he is white then pick Vitali K.He never lost in the ring yet.He does fight black fighters.He does fight 220 plus pound men.