Who Here Is A Top 10 ATG Heavyweight And Who Is Not?

[IronDanHamza]

This is not a good resume for all time sake. The division was terribly weak.

You just described Rocky Marciano's career.

Of which Patterson, and even Valdez would probably be his best wins if he had them.

[them_apples]

You just described Rocky Marciano's career.

Of which Patterson, and even Valdez would probably be his best wins if he had them.

made a post comparing resumes. this is totally not true. would love to see your arguments against mine.

Archie Moore beat Valdez in his prime btw.

[IronDanHamza]

made a post comparing resumes. this is totally not true. would love to see your arguments against mine.

Archie Moore beat Valdez in his prime btw.

It still doesn't change the fact your post describes Marciano's career.

What are you saying here? That Patterson and Valdez wouldn't be two of Marciano's best wins?

[them_apples]

It still doesn't change the fact your post describes Marciano's career.

What are you saying here? That Patterson and Valdez wouldn't be two of Marciano's best wins?

how does Liston get credit for beating Valdez in the second last bout of Valdez career. he's lost 10 times in 5 years and retires one fight later. Not a very good win at all. Nothing great about it. You think Marciano can't beat this version of the overated Valdez? a man Moore beat in his prime? This is what I mean by double standard.

It's all because Marciano is small and Italian. This is the only reason and it's a casual reason.

Why is Valdez allowed to lose to a 180 lbs Moore (yes 180 lbs) vs Valdez 209 lbs

Marciano who weighs 185 lbs on Average fights "small guys"

[IronDanHamza]

how does Liston get credit for beating Valdez in the second last bout of Valdez career. he's lost 10 times in 5 years and retires one fight later. Not a very good win at all. Nothing great about it. You think Marciano can't beat this version of the overated Valdez? a man Moore beat in his prime? This is what I mean by double standard.

It's all because Marciano is small and Italian. This is the only reason and it's a casual reason.

#2 ranked fighter in the world that's why.

Was ranked higher than Charles when Marciano beat Charles.

[them_apples]

#2 ranked fighter in the world that's why.

Was ranked higher than Charles when Marciano beat Charles.

thats not a very good reason - if a dude who has lost that much in 5 years and barely won anything is ranked number 2.

What was Charles ranking when Marciano fought him?

When Marciano faced Charles, Charles was the #1 contender. Valdez became #1 later that year. And this is the ring rankings. There is some dispute over this

[them_apples]

copy and pasted:

Actually, Charles was the #1 contender when he fought Marciano. And Valdes was not the #1 contender from August, 1953. He was only #4 at that time.

Ring Rankings in October, 1953, issue to August 18.

Champ--Rocky Marciano

1--Roland LaStarza
2--Ezzard Charles
3--Dan Bucceroni
4--Nino Valdes
5--Tommy Harrison
6--Bob Satterfield
7--Heinz Neuhaus
8--Don ****ell
9--Earl Walls
10-Harry Matthews

Losses by LaStarza, Charles, and Bucceroni and Valdes wins put Nino at #1 at the end of the year, but he fell out of the #1 spot in early 1954 when his management avoided a rematch with Charles, Charles ko'd Satterfield in the elimination fight Valdes skirted, and Valdes looked bad in barely beating Archie McBride. Charles then took over the #1 spot again.

Ring ****zine rankings August, 1954 issue

Champ--Rocky Marciano

1--Ezzard Charles
2--Nino Valdes
3--Don ****ell
4--Jimmy Slade
5--Roland LaStarza
6--Hurricane Jackson
7--Dan Bucceroni
8--Bob Baker
9--Earl Walls
10-Heinz Neuhaus

After the two Marciano-Charles fights, Valdes regained the #1 ranking after ko'ing Jackson. However, Archie Moore, who had beaten Valdes and ko'd Harold Johnson and Baker, began demanding a fight with Marciano, and was viewed by most as the real #1 contender. He was matched with Valdes in May, 1955 and beat him again, dropping Valdes out of the top spot permanently. Of Marciano's opponents, LaStarza, Charles, and Moore were all rated above Valdes when he fought them. Only ****ell, at #2, was rated under Valdes.

โ€?

[IronDanHamza]

thats not a very good reason - if a dude who has lost that much in 5 years and barely won anything is ranked number 2.

What was Charles ranking when Marciano fought him?

When Marciano faced Charles, Charles was the #1 contender. Valdez became #1 later that year. And this is the ring rankings. There is some dispute over this

You're asking why Liston is getting credit for it.

Because he was the #2 ranked fighter in the world, is why.

[Bronson66]

Yeah but we can only rate Liston on what he actually did.

you say the Patterson wins were good - then for example Bronson claims he only fought - few rounds in this time as justification for getting washed against Ali in his very next fight.

heรยรยรยรยรยรยรยรยขรยรยรยรยรยรยรยรยรยรยรยรยรยรยรยร ?s a good fighter no doubt but the list is asking for greatness. He didnรยรยรยรยรยรยรยรยขรยรยรยรยรยรยรยรยรยรยรยรยรยรยร ?รยt do anything great. He was scary and talented but he lacked the right mentality. He lost at every point in his career. Lost when he was green / prime / past prime and his best wins is Folley and Patterson. Thats not greatness

Williams is nothing special - Folley is his best win but Ali made easy work of Folley as well. Which makes me think Folley is just another decent fighter. Thats not enough.

why is Tunney getting voted? I donรยรยรยรยขรยรยรยรยรยรยรยรยt remember Tunney getting koed in one round in his prime. Tunneys only loss is going life and death with arguably the best fighter p4p of all time in his prime when Tunney was green. He finished that fight with a broken nose - shut eyes and swollen ribs. Checked into a hospital afterwards. Had 4 more bouts thats were extremely competitive. That is serious greatness

Liston quits vs Ali and even tries cheating. Gets a rematch and gets stopped in one round. This should have been Listons prime. Not long before he beat Patterson - his career defining win.

I do sort of agree that had Liston been campaigning in the 70s he probably beats most of them. Many of them were simply famous for fighting Ali. Norton - Quarry - Lyle even Frazier to some extent are only remembered for fighting Ali. Frazier got a W so we can leave him off the list.

I don't claim,It's a fact
.So **** YOU!

[them_apples]

You're asking why Liston is getting credit for it.

Because he was the #2 ranked fighter in the world, is why.

charles was ranked number 1