Mayweather's Position, All Time P4P List

[Kid Cauliflower]

What do you mean by “same stuff”?

People will be crying how great Crawford was. They already are and he hasn't even fought anyone. It is going to take a little more than Garcia, Spence and a nondescript junior middleweight for me to call him great.

[IronDanHamza]

People will be crying how great Crawford was. They already are and he hasn't even fought anyone. It is going to take a little more than Garcia, Spence and a nondescript junior middleweight for me to call him great.

I’m confused what are you comparing it to? Mayweather?

I also think it’s very silly to say Crawford, a 3 weight Lineal and 2 weight Undisputed champion has fought no one.

[Bundana]

Most smaller fighters would "beat" most larger ones, if you consider how the physics would work when blowing up the small man to match the weight of the big man.

As it is, without a "Honey, I shrunk the kids" machine, and bound to the laws of physics, a lightweight will reliably move faster and execute more precisely than a larger man.
However, those advantages are offset by mass, strength, power and resiliency to the extent that weight divisions are appropriate in combat sports.

P4P ratings are useful only for comparing career accomplishment across divisions.

I'm not quite sure, what you mean here?

[Kid Cauliflower]

I’m confused what are you comparing it to? Mayweather?

I also think it’s very silly to say Crawford, a 3 weight Lineal and 2 weight Lineal champion has fought no one.

Oh, he had some fights, so he has fought someone all right.

He fought the normal grist that everyone else does, sprinkled with some pretty decent fighters, which is sadly not enough to be called an ATG. He fought plenty of ordinary fighters and some ordinary ex champions, etc., in a day and age in which every fighter with even half a name has been an interim champion or some other garbage. Porter and Brook were solid fighters, but not mountain peaks.

His most notable win is over a pre-tenderized Spence. Is Spence even a fighter anymore?

I am hoping he gets some higher quality fights before he goes to the rocking chair. I'd like to see what he can do.

[IronDanHamza]

Oh, he had some fights, so he has fought someone all right.

He fought the normal grist that everyone else does, sprinkled with some pretty decent fighters, which is sadly not enough to be called an ATG. He fought plenty of ordinary fighters and some ordinary ex champions, etc., in a day and age in which every fighter with even half a name has been an interim champion or some other garbage. Porter and Brook were solid fighters, but not mountain peaks.

His most notable win is over a pre-tenderized Spence. Is Spence even a fighter anymore?

I am hoping he gets some higher quality fights before he goes to the rocking chair. I'd like to see what he can do.

I mean, the guys cleaned out 3 divisions, now going for a title in his 4th.

If that isn't impressive, not quite sure what is.

[QueensburyRules]

I'm not quite sure, what you mean here?

- - It's ethereal, and special googles are needed to decipher.

[Willow The Wisp]

My Greatest Boxers of the Modern Era
1892 - 2024

1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Henry Armstrong
3. Wille Pep
4. Muhammad Ali
5. Harry Greb
6. Joe Louis
7. Sam Langford
8. Benny Leonard
9. Roberto Duran
10. Jack Dempsey
11. Jack Johnson
12. Mickey Walker
13. Tony Canzoneri
14. Gene Tunney
15. Rocky Marciano
16. Joe Gans
17. Sugar Ray Leonard
18. Barney Ross
19. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
20. Jimmy McLarnin
21. Marvin Hagler
22. Julio Cesar Chavez
23. Ezzard Charles
24. Archie Moore
25. Manny Pacquiao
26. Carlos Monzon
27. Marcel Cerdan
28. Barbados Joe Walcott
29. Jimmy Wilde
30. Jose Napoles
31. Stanley Ketchel
32. Terry McGovern
33. Eder Jofre
34. George Foreman
35. Johnny Dundee
36. Jake LaMotta
37. Pascual Perez
38. Emile Griffith
39. Bernard Hopkins
40. Billy Conn
41. Ruben Olivares
42. Tommy Loughran
43. Sandy Saddler
44. Kid Chocolate
45. Abe Attell
46. Larry Holmes
47. George Dixon
48. Ted "Kid" Lewis
49. Lennox Lewis
50. Pernell Whitaker
51. Evander Holyfield
52. Carlos Zarate
53. Thomas Hearns
54. Battling Nelson
55. Beau Jack
56. Joe Frazier
57. John L. Sullivan
58. Alexis Arguello
59. Carmen Basillio
60. Pete Herman
61. Charley Burley
62. Ike Williams
63. Roy Jones Jr.
64. Kid Gavilan
65. Jack Britton
66. Salvador Sanchez
67. Pancho Villa
68. Maxie Rosenbloom
69. Panama Al Brown
70. Bob Fitszimmons
71. Philadelphia Jack O'Brien
72. Tiger Flowers
73. James J.Corbett
74. Tony Zale
75. Tommy Ryan
76. Michael Spinks
77. **** Tiger
78. Charles "Sonny" Liston
79. Charles "Kid" McCoy
80. Bob Foster
81. Freddie Welsh
82. Joe Jeanette
83. Jim Driscoll
84. Georges Carpentier
85. Peter Jackson
86. Ad Wolgast
87. Jack Dempsey (The Nonpareil)
88. Mike Tyson
89. James J. Jeffries
90. Johnny Kilbane
91. Jimmy Barry
92. Carlos Ortiz
93. Wilfredo Gomez
94. Oscar de la Hoya
95. Manuel Ortiz
96. Aaron Pryor
97. Mike Gibbons
98. Jack Delaney
99. Jack Dillon
100.Gennady Golovkin

[Willow The Wisp]

I'm not quite sure, what you mean here?

No problem. My point was that it is a deeper consideration when one seeks to compare the abilities of two fighters of considerably different sized bodies.

Try this: Who's stronger; an Ant or a Human?
In practice - The human, of course.

P4P, so to speak?
Shirink the human down to the ant's actual size, or blow up the ant to the humans size - and it isn't even close.
The Ant.

For this reason and the physics and physiology behind it; Willie Pep would make even Ali look rather slow if their size were somehow equalized.
Therefore, a comparison of speed, style, execution between a great Lightweight and a great heavyweight is not genuinely possible.

[QueensburyRules]

No problem. My point was that it is a deeper consideration when one seeks to compare the abilities of two fighters of considerably different sized bodies.

Try this: Who's stronger; an Ant or a Human?
In practice - The human, of course.

P4P, so to speak?
Shirink the human down to the ant's actual size, or blow up the ant to the humans size - and it isn't even close.
The Ant.

For this reason and the physics and physiology behind it; Willie Pep would make even Ali look rather slow if their size were somehow equalized.
Therefore, a comparison of speed, style, execution between a great Lightweight and a great heavyweight is not genuinely possible.

- - That ain't the way physics and physiology work...

l'l floydy a triple AAA+++ sissy. If it weren't Haymon manipulating boxing from his Vampire Underground Bunker, l'l floydy would've stayed retired.

[Bundana]

No problem. My point was that it is a deeper consideration when one seeks to compare the abilities of two fighters of considerably different sized bodies.

Try this: Who's stronger; an Ant or a Human?
In practice - The human, of course.

P4P, so to speak?
Shirink the human down to the ant's actual size, or blow up the ant to the humans size - and it isn't even close.
The Ant.

For this reason and the physics and physiology behind it; Willie Pep would make even Ali look rather slow if their size were somehow equalized.
Therefore, a comparison of speed, style, execution between a great Lightweight and a great heavyweight is not genuinely possible.

Ok, I get what you mean - but I don't follow your logic.

If we blow up Pep to 212 lbs (Ali's prime weight, or thereabouts)... surely he wouldn't be as fast, as he was at 126. And if we shrink Ali down to 126 - wouldn't he be much faster than at 212? I don't think we can reasonably predict, that one would be faster than the other, if they were the same size