Gerb vs Louis according to those who saw the both

[JAB5239]

That Conn fight is very interesting. There are times when Louis was less than stellar. I tend to look at the Conn fight as possibly one of these times, or, an example of how a great puncher, given 15 rounds, wins a fight with a great boxer. Louis had to be patient, and sure... he drew Conn into a fire fight, but his punching power prevailed, he caught his man with time to spare.

I agree with this wholeheartedly. It does bring me to another point though which I have been alluding to all along. Conn ALMOST pulled it off...but in MY opinion Greb was the better lightheavyweight, beat better lightheavyweights. Do I assume he beats Louis? Hell no. But given Conns Performance and what we know about Greb......if it was Harry instead of Billy that night in 1941, I would be guessing but I think Harry could pull it off. I also believe he could beat Dempsey. Not that he automatically would, but he has a good chance. I think he'd have a chance against Marciano and Liston as well. Does that opinion make it real? Again, hell no. But I believe Greb was good enough to compete with these men and be competitive enough to MAYBE garner some victories. But like I've always said, no one can ever say with any surety because it's a make believe fight that never did and never will happen.

[ShoulderRoll]

Speaking of that, that means he's not an ATG to you, doesn't it?

Anyone that used PEDs can't be put on the same level as greats who we know were clean.

[IronDanHamza]

Anyone that used PEDs can't be put on the same level as greats who we know were clean.

That is not what I asked you.

Are you incapable of answering a yes or no question?

[IronDanHamza]

I agree with this wholeheartedly. It does bring me to another point though which I have been alluding to all along. Conn ALMOST pulled it off...but in MY opinion Greb was the better lightheavyweight, beat better lightheavyweights. Do I assume he beats Louis? Hell no. But given Conns Performance and what we know about Greb......if it was Harry instead of Billy that night in 1941, I would be guessing but I think Harry could pull it off. I also believe he could beat Dempsey. Not that he automatically would, but he has a good chance. I think he'd have a chance against Marciano and Liston as well. Does that opinion make it real? Again, hell no. But I believe Greb was good enough to compete with these men and be competitive enough to MAYBE garner some victories. But like I've always said, no one can ever say with any surety because it's a make believe fight that never did and never will happen.

You can't say that because Conn and Greb are nothing alike style wise (From witness testimony) so because Conn gave Louis problems doesn't mean Greb would. Conn was a slickster and boxer whereas Greb was told as an aggressive slugger.

I mean yeah, could Greb beat Dempsey? It's not out of the realms of possibility because Dempsey was like what, 185-190 lbs? It's feasible.

Greb's not beating 210-220 lb men like Louis, Ali, Liston, Foreman, Frazier, Tyson etc it's just not going to happen and he's especially not beating the huge greats like Lewis, Klitschko, Fury etc

[JAB5239]

You can't say that because Conn and Greb are nothing alike style wise (From witness testimony) so because Conn gave Louis problems doesn't mean Greb would. Conn was a slickster and boxer whereas Greb was told as an aggressive slugger.

I mean yeah, could Greb beat Dempsey? It's not out of the realms of possibility because Dempsey was like what, 185-190 lbs? It's feasible.

Greb's not beating 210-220 lb men like Louis, Ali, Liston, Foreman, Frazier, Tyson etc it's just not going to happen and he's especially not beating the huge greats like Lewis, Klitschko, Fury etc

Louis weighed 198 for the first Conn fight if I'm not mistaken. Liston 210 for the first Ali fight, and we know Marciano wasn't a big heavyweight.

Watching Conn fight he got in on Louis, land his punches and got out. We know from newspaper accounts and fighter testimonial that Greb was a swarmed who throw a lot of punches, was elusive and had great footwork. While it can never be proven, I'd wager its safe to say Greb fought much like Conn but with a higher workmates and better foot speed. That of course is an assumption based on research about both fighters. Saying "he's not beating" these men is an assumption on your part. You have your opinion and that is cool. I have mine. Everything ive read leads me to believe Harry has a very good chance of beating at least a few all time greats. By no means do i think this is factual though.

[IronDanHamza]

Louis weighed 198 for the first Conn fight if I'm not mistaken. Liston 210 for the first Ali fight, and we know Marciano wasn't a big heavyweight.

Watching Conn fight he got in on Louis, land his punches and got out. We know from newspaper accounts and fighter testimonial that Greb was a swarmed who throw a lot of punches, was elusive and had great footwork. While it can never be proven, I'd wager its safe to say Greb fought much like Conn but with a higher workmates and better foot speed. That of course is an assumption based on research about both fighters. Saying "he's not beating" these men is an assumption on your part. You have your opinion and that is cool. I have mine. Everything ive read leads me to believe Harry has a very good chance of beating at least a few all time greats. By no means do i think this is factual though.

I mean you are entitled to your opinion but there is absolutely nothing at all to suggest that Greb has any kind of chance against the elite Heavyweights that were 210+ lbs.

None.

[Dr. Z]

That's a fair point. But didn't Billy Conn only weigh 174 for Louis and ALMOST pull off the upset? It's all unprovable no matter what any of us think. But it's fun to speculate.

168 pounds. If a man this size could out box Louis for 12 rounds and stunt him. Well , most fans ignore such details! Conn would not match up Lewis, Klitschko, or even Fury. They are too big and have a longer fight controlling jab and footwork.

[ShoulderRoll]

That is not what I asked you.

Are you incapable of answering a yes or no question?

Do you have a hard time understanding English?

[billeau2]

I agree with this wholeheartedly. It does bring me to another point though which I have been alluding to all along. Conn ALMOST pulled it off...but in MY opinion Greb was the better lightheavyweight, beat better lightheavyweights. Do I assume he beats Louis? Hell no. But given Conns Performance and what we know about Greb......if it was Harry instead of Billy that night in 1941, I would be guessing but I think Harry could pull it off. I also believe he could beat Dempsey. Not that he automatically would, but he has a good chance. I think he'd have a chance against Marciano and Liston as well. Does that opinion make it real? Again, hell no. But I believe Greb was good enough to compete with these men and be competitive enough to MAYBE garner some victories. But like I've always said, no one can ever say with any surety because it's a make believe fight that never did and never will happen.

Greb was probably a different level than Conn. We won't ever know, and lord knows when we start looking at light heavy weights, a lot of guys come out of the woodwork that we forget... I always wind up forgetting some one when I try to discuss the short list in this division. We have to let go of the bias that under all conditions, being bigger is an advantage. In a boxing match, under certain conditions, this may not be so. Greb fought according to the tools around during his time. Would he prevail against other men who were bigger? Being bigger was simply less of an advantage until the modern era which is why guys got bigger perhaps... Though I think there is a such thing as "too much."

I give Greb a chance and deduce from all that we know that he was a stronger fighter than Conn. Ohh and forgot to say: Tunney IMO like Jimmy Young, sis a fighter who is constantly underrated. The fact that Greb was competative, much less winning, against Tunney says a lot... We may not have film of Greb, until we find the old lady with a mint 1954 Chevy in the garage, pics her husband took at Area 51 of "those alien guys" and "he was a fan of ole harry! sure here are tapes of his fights! 'your a nice young man, take them" .... But we have tape of Tunney!

[billeau2]

Do you have a hard time understanding English?

Ha ha... welcome to the Dan situation! Best to make your point and politely tell him to have a nice day, in a closed sweltering car in the middle of a furnace.