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Did Jack Johnson participate in fixed fights?

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    #51
    Originally posted by QueensburyRules View Post

    - - I've read for umpteen years that JJohnson when released from prison where he likely did most of his writing gave Nat an autobio manuscript to publish for a cash exchange. Nat filed it, the end until later when the 1970 autobio appears.

    I read excerpts from something published claiming to be an autobio, and given JJ been dead since the 40s, the only source known at that time was Nat. Could be JJ sold his manuscript to someone else also. He was a double dealer without scruples but of much higher intelligence than you who frankly don't half of what you slobber about.
    Fleischer never published Johnson's confession,[2 pages,no autobiography,] having bought the rights to it he chucked it in his safe and forgot about it.

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      #52
      Originally posted by Dr. Z View Post

      At least you say he had some su****ious fights. He did say he took a dive vs Willard ( false ) and had a deal with Ketchel which is a pre-determined outcome. He was in a lot of DQ's fouled a bit too much, more than ANY fighter I can think of. I say yes, he in least one fight and presented some of the known data.
      No deal with Ketchel ,an agreement with Willus Britt ,Ketchel's manager ,[which Ketchel was not privy to,] to allow Ketchel to stay ,carry him for a few rounds to make the film rights more profitable.
      Johnson was dsq'd only once in a controversial fight that had only gone 2 rounds,a fight in which he was in front ,what would be his motivation to foul Jeannette, whom he floored multiple times in their series? One dsq in77 fights
      Name all the fights he fouled in?
      Last edited by Ivich; 01-23-2023, 10:48 AM.
      travestyny travestyny likes this.

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        #53
        Originally posted by Ivich View Post
        No deal with Ketchel ,an agreement with Willus Britt ,Ketchel's manager ,[which Ketchel was not privy to,] to allow Ketchel to stay ,carry him for a few rounds to make the film rights more profitable.
        Johnson was dsq'd only once in a controversial fight that had only gone 2 rounds,a fight in which he was in front ,what would be his motivation to foul Jeannette, whom he floored multiple times in their series? One dsq in77 fights
        Name all the fights he fouled in?
        I did name some of the fights he fouled in and by no means was the low blow DQ controversial! An agreement to carry somebody on a fight is way of fixing thing is it not? Johnson won a lot of fight via DQ. Read post #1 here. Fixed fights work both ways you know.

        You are a joke and not to be taken seriously.

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          #54
          Originally posted by Dr. Z View Post

          I did name some of the fights he fouled in and by no means was the low blow DQ controversial! An agreement to carry somebody on a fight is way of fixing thing is it not? Johnson won a lot of fight via DQ. Read post #1 here. Fixed fights work both ways you know.

          You are a joke and not to be taken seriously.
          Carrying someone is not fixing a fight. Unless the fighter is manipulating the over-under bet (MAYBE as Money has been accused of against Paul.)

          Dempsey carrier Carpentier for four rounds at Rickard's behest, that's a classic story (that I tend to believe) but certainly not a fix.
          JohnThomas1 JT1 Ivich Ivich like this.

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            #55
            Originally posted by Dr. Z View Post

            I did name some of the fights he fouled in and by no means was the low blow DQ controversial! An agreement to carry somebody on a fight is way of fixing thing is it not? Johnson won a lot of fight via DQ. Read post #1 here. Fixed fights work both ways you know.

            You are a joke and not to be taken seriously.
            Name them now.
            PS Have you made the post I requested on Classic, copied it and pasted it here to prove you are not banned from there?
            Of course you havent!

            That's because you are a congenital LIAR!
            Last edited by Ivich; 01-23-2023, 05:48 PM.
            JohnThomas1 JT1 likes this.

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              #56
              Originally posted by Dr. Z View Post

              At least you say he had some su****ious fights. He did say he took a dive vs Willard ( false ) and had a deal with Ketchel which is a pre-determined outcome. He was in a lot of DQ's fouled a bit too much, more than ANY fighter I can think of. I say yes, he in least one fight and presented some of the known data.
              We all know he didn't take a dive vs. Willard. Yes, men lie. He isn't the only boxer to tell a lie. I don't know if I can think of one who hasn't about something or other.

              I don't think anything was pre-determined with Ketchel. Seems to me he faked being knocked down, then belted Ketchel to the moon, in hopes of the film being a hit.
              Ivich Ivich likes this.

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                #57
                Originally posted by travestyny View Post

                We all know he didn't take a dive vs. Willard. Yes, men lie. He isn't the only boxer to tell a lie. I don't know if I can think of one who hasn't about something or other.

                I don't think anything was pre-determined with Ketchel. Seems to me he faked being knocked down, then belted Ketchel to the moon, in hopes of the film being a hit.
                Langford lied about flooring Johnson and his weight for that fight.
                Jeannette lied about his weight for one of his fights with Johnson and claimed to have beaten him several times.
                Boxers and their managers routinely self promote their achievements .especially back in the days when records were less than accurate.Gun BoatSmith Johnson's sparring partner for the Ketchel fight stated Johnson pulled a fake knockdown to add to the movie rights value.
                travestyny travestyny likes this.

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                  #58
                  Originally posted by Ivich View Post
                  Langford lied about flooring Johnson and his weight for that fight.
                  Jeannette lied about his weight for one of his fights with Johnson and claimed to have beaten him several times.
                  Boxers and their managers routinely self promote their achievements .especially back in the days when records were less than accurate.Gun BoatSmith Johnson's sparring partner for the Ketchel fight stated Johnson pulled a fake knockdown to add to the movie rights value.
                  So I guess Johnson must have lied that he was knocked down in the Langford fight too. It's in his memoir and a letter written to Mullins.
                  Dr. Z Dr. Z likes this.

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                    #59
                    Originally posted by GhostofDempsey View Post

                    So I guess Johnson must have lied that he was knocked down in the Langford fight too. It's in his memoir and a letter written to Mullins.
                    I keep telling you he didn't write that book.
                    The book itself was a collection of "supposed quotes"and was published in France in1914 whilst Johnson was still champion.
                    it was translated into English ,I think 2 years later .Went out of print for awhile and was then re-translated back into French, It does not even have a ghost writers name!
                    FYI Johnson wrote a letter to the Ring stating categorically that Langford did not knock him down and quoting Tad Dorgan's report of the fight ,Dorgan was ringside.Johnson floored Langford 4 times closed his eye and broke his nose.However hard it is for you to accept this information ,those are the facts.
                    Nat Fliescher's father in law was at the fight he stated Johnson thrashed Langford.
                    Clay Moyle has written the definitive biography om Langford and he agrees ,but you are not interested in that you are like DR Z you don't want the truth,you just want to smear a man who has been dead for well over a hundred years.How sad are you!
                    If you feel the need to cling to this comic to disparage Johnson that's up to you,just do not expect those of us who have read several really well researched bios of Johnson to give it ,or you any credibility on the subject,
                    I could post interviews with Johnson,dfirectly contradicting stuff in that rag , correcting things like Johnson supposedly admitting Hart beat him and Langford gave him a terrific fight ,flooring him along the way.

                    But,since you would dismiss these verified ,primary sourced , quotes what would be the point?
                    Why waste my time?
                    You want to believe any negative comments on Johnson,to the point that you are absolutely determined to do so!

                    So why waste my time and energy debating with a bigoted ,closed ,biased mind?
                    I've learned quite a bit on boxing forums,debating with various people , but you will never learn anything,you're incapable of objectivity and not interested in the truth.
                    Last edited by Ivich; 01-24-2023, 12:37 PM.
                    travestyny travestyny likes this.

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                      #60
                      Originally posted by Ivich View Post
                      I keep telling you he didn't write that book.
                      The book itself was a collection of "supposed quotes"and was published in France in1914 whilst Johnson was still champion.
                      it was translated into English ,I think 2 years later .Went out of print for awhile and was then re-translated back into French
                      FYI Johnson wrote a letter to the Ring stating categorically that Langford did not knock him down and quoting Tad Dorgan's report of the fight ,Dorgan was ringside.Johnson floored Langford 4 times closed his eye and broke his nose.However hard it is for you to accept this information ,those are the facts.
                      If you feel the need to cling to this comic to disparage Johnson that's up to you,just do not expect those of us who have read several really well researched bios of Johnson to give it ,or you any credibility on the subject,
                      I could post interviews with Johnson,dfirectly contradicting stuff in that rag ,things like Johnson supposedly admitting Hart beat him and Langford gave him a terrific fight ,flooring him along the way.
                      But,sinc
                      I keep telling you the book is a compilation of his quotes from interviews and articles. They are in his words. On at least two occasions he claimed he went down, in one he said it was a slip. You can pretend you went back to 1906 in your time machine and seen it with your own two eyes, but you'll never know beyond a shadow of a doubt. It's unprovable, regardless of how many obscure articles you dig out of the archives.
                      Dr. Z Dr. Z likes this.

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