Pick a fighter you considered the GOAT, or pick a fighter who is top 5 ATG for you. What is it about him that makes him So? What quality(s)?

[billeau2]

So assuming Ray Robinson is the best... Is it all the things he could do in the ring? Is it his lack of weakness? is there one quality that stands out?

[The Old LefHook]

With Robinson most everything was proven rather than conjectured. There is no shortage of example, little is left to speculation, other than the absence of Charley Burley on his sheet, who was the best of Murderers' Row. Of course Burley was a fighter who could not draw flies to a carcass, which has to be at least part of the reason, I figure. Robinson liked money; he fought for big money, not a pair of chickens and a cow. It is a tossup. Burley beat Archie Moore several times, proving it was no fluke, and I doubt Robinson ever could have whipped Moore. I read long ago that Moore, Ray and their wives had dinner once and discussed a matchup.

What was proven about Robinson?

1 He had a monster chin
2 He had a monster punch with either hand
3 He threw every punch in the book (maybe not bolo)
4 He was great in rematches
5 Excellent stamina
6 He fought often
7 Adept against all styles
8 His was a balanced attack with both hands and plenty of body punches
9 His killer instinct is legendary
10 Consistently a brilliant combination puncher
11 His grade in speed is A- (A minus)
12 He could KO with body shots using either hand
13 He would fight any white man
14 His grade in ring generalship is B-
15 His grade in defense is B
16 Grade in offense is A+, and then some
17 An all time KO leader


Did I overlooked something?

** * * *

And to think we never saw him at his best, probably about three years before he left welterweight land.

[billeau2]

With Robinson most everything was proven rather than conjectured. There is no shortage of example, little is left to speculation, other than the absence of Charley Burley on his sheet, who was the best of Murderers' Row. Of course Burley was a fighter who could not draw flies to a carcass, which has to be at least part of the reason, I figure. Robinson liked money; he fought for big money, not a pair of chickens and a cow. It is a tossup. Burley beat Archie Moore several times, proving it was no fluke, and I doubt Robinson ever could have whipped Moore. I read long ago that Moore, Ray and their wives had dinner once and discussed a matchup.

What was proven about Robinson?

1 He had a monster chin
2 He had a monster punch with either hand
3 He threw every punch in the book (maybe not bolo)
4 He was great in rematches
5 Excellent stamina
6 He fought often
7 Adept against all styles
8 His was a balanced attack with both hands and plenty of body punches
9 His killer instinct is legendary
10 Consistently a brilliant combination puncher
11 His grade in speed is A- (A minus)
12 He could KO with body shots using either hand
13 He would fight any white man
14 His grade in ring generalship is B-
15 His grade in defense is B
16 Grade in offense is A+, and then some
17 An all time KO leader


Did I overlooked something?

** * * *

And to think we never saw him at his best, probably about three years before he left welterweight land.

There is no getting around the sheer volume of what Robinson could do... But you have guys like Armstrong who do not do everything but do something extremely well... So surely there is more to the driving force that makes any fighter potentially the greatest. I used Robinson as an example.

[Willie Pep 229]

In the years that Burley and Robinson could have met at WW, circa 1940-1943 Robinson never seemed to venture any further west than Chicago and St. Louis, fighting mostly in the New York area.

Burley spent most of his best years in Caifornia, coming east to fight Zivic in Pittsburg as a hone coming, but otherwise the two (Burley-SRR) just weren't campaiging in the same region of the country.

Certainly SRR was the draw so it would have been up to Burley to come east and seek him out. Burley just didn't seem interested in fighting in NY. Fought there once very early in his career (St. Nick's Arena) and then at the end in Buffalo (Holman Williams).

I would argue the failure for the fight to happen lies with Burley's multiple managers.

But then again Burley was always able to maintain a Ring Ranking without fighting SRR so maybe that was the plan.

IMO the onus is on Burley. Considering the dynamics of that period he needed to seek out SRR. Can't see why top ranked Robinson would want to travel that far west for a difficult fight with a guy who can't draw flies to a carcass.

[The Old LefHook]

Ideally, Burley vs Robinson would be contested at the modern Junior middleweight limit.

The referee once stopped a fight between Burley and Holman Williams for lack of action and sent them both to the showers in disgrace. With performances like that you must be right--Burley was not looking for Robinson very hard.

[Ivich]

There is no getting around the sheer volume of what Robinson could do... But you have guys like Armstrong who do not do everything but do something extremely well... So surely there is more to the driving force that makes any fighter potentially the greatest. I used Robinson as an example.

Armstrong is an ATG but he missed a few.
Burley
Williams
Cocoa Kid
Being three of them.

[Ivich]

So assuming Ray Robinson is the best... Is it all the things he could do in the ring? Is it his lack of weakness? is there one quality that stands out?

Since most everyone will go for SRR,I'll go for Harry Greb
Resume
Speed
Chin
Willingness to concede weight to top fighters
Sheer volume of bouts

[billeau2]

Since most everyone will go for SRR,I'll go for Harry Greb
Resume
Speed
Chin
Willingness to concede weight to top fighters
Sheer volume of bouts

I just want to clarify. Robinson was a convenient example... I think "the best' is a little bit difficult to determine... Just wanted to give an example for a typical opinion and what might "drive" a fighter considered to be the GOAT.

[Ivich]

I just want to clarify. Robinson was a convenient example... I think "the best' is a little bit difficult to determine... Just wanted to give an example for a typical opinion and what might "drive" a fighter considered to be the GOAT.

You couldnt pick a better example.