McCall vs Lewis (2)

[sonnyboyx2]

4th time:

1) At the time you bought your ticket for the Lewis Ruddock fight did you think that Ruddock was shot and had no chance?

2) Would you say it is a silly comment to say that these fighters with unbeaten records were on the slide when Lewis fought them? I'm not asking you your opinion on them as fighters just the on the slide part.

1) At the time i bought my ticket i could not understand the logic in The Lewis camp taking on Ruddock and felt it was a Big step up for Lewis yet still a 50/50 fight, however fighters and trainers are the 1st to know when another fighter is `shot` not us the general public, and after the 2 brutal beatings Ruddock took from Mike Tyson it was plain for all to see that he was "Damaged Goods" by the time he fought Lennox Lewis... i bought my ticket to also see Meldrick Taylor defend his world title against Chrisanto Espana on the same bill, sadly Meldrick Taylor was a `shot` fighter on the night and was a pityfull sight to see as i remembered his brilliant skills only a few years earlier against Glenwood Brown, Harold Brazier and Howard Davis Jr.

2) i have never claimed any unbeaten fighters Lennox Lewis fought was "ON THE SLIDE" the fighters Lewis fought who was `on the slide` had already suffered defeats, Botha, Morrison, Briggs, Bruno, Tyson, Holyfield, Tua, Mercer, Tucker, Biggs, the undefeated fighters Lewis fought had already been "EXPOSED" as not worthy of a world title fight, like Grant getting floored and beaten by Golota before Golota quit, Akinwande holding the limited German Shultz to a draw, edging out light-heavyweight Johnny Nelson and only just beating an ancient Tony Tucker... Mavrovic i had seen fight many times on Eurosport and IMO he was way short of world class

[GJC]

The real scandal is not Lewis vacating his belt rather than face Ruiz, but how Ruiz made the #1 contender spot in the first place, given that he'd beaten no one to warrant it and his only noteworthy fight had been his 30 second blowout against Tua.

Didn't Don King pay Lewis to vacate so as he could promote Ruiz fighting for the title? I have a vague memory of this, I'm no expert on the career of Lennox Lewis by any means.
Mind its always nice to know there are some people who know less

[GJC]

1) At the time i bought my ticket i could not understand the logic in The Lewis camp taking on Ruddock and felt it was a Big step up for Lewis yet still a 50/50 fight, however fighters and trainers are the 1st to know when another fighter is `shot` not us the general public, and after the 2 brutal beatings Ruddock took from Mike Tyson it was plain for all to see that he was "Damaged Goods" by the time he fought Lennox Lewis

I’m sure the Tyson camp thought the same about Holyfield.
So you admit you are talking with hindsight previously about Ruddock and that he was a legitimate opponent in an eliminator?

2) i have never claimed any unbeaten fighters Lennox Lewis fought was "ON THE SLIDE" [/QUOTE]

My apologies then, I misread your comment as quoted below.

The Truth is Lennox Lewis was an oppotunist who never fought the top fighters who was at the top of their game, he chose to fight Class C fighters who was on the slide like, Botha, Tua, Grant, Tucker, Akinwande, Briggs, Jackson, Butler, Golota, Morrison, Ruddock, Mavrovich... his only 2 victories over elite opposition was over Tyson & Holyfield who was both a decade past their best

to deny or try to spin the facts is ludicrous

[Dynamite Kid]

You are, I have discovered, a fantasist who simply makes things up out of thin air. Now Lewis ducked Roy Jones too? How about Hopkins or Calzaghe or Ricardo Lopez? For all his bluster, there was never much likelihood of Jones fighting Lewis or Tyson, certainly when his stated $100m purse for those fights never materialised. That Jones didn't make a single defence of his heavyweight title should tell you all you need to know.

It's already been pointed out to you several times that Bowe, Moorer and Tyson wouldn't fight Lewis. Bowe vacated his belt to avoid facing Lewis and fought two journeymen. Tyson also vacated his belt to avoid Lewis and then paid Lewis not to face him. Moorer ignored him and opted instead to fight an inactive 45-year-old. Foreman was another who showed no interest in facing Lewis.

However you spin it, Grant was unbeaten and being hyped as the next big American and that was the fight to be made, not Lewis vs Ruiz. Isn't that what boxing fans want, the best making the big fights? The real scandal is not Lewis vacating his belt rather than face Ruiz, but how Ruiz made the #1 contender spot in the first place, given that he'd beaten no one to warrant it and his only noteworthy fight had been his 30 second blowout against Tua.

Had Holyfield beaten Bowe in their first fight I imagine he would have faced Lewis next. No way would Evander disgrace himself by binning his belt the way Bowe did. He and Lewis then had an agreement to meet after Holyfield's defence against Moorer. As it was, he lost to Moorer and then retired for a year with that mysterious heart ailment which killed the fight again. Then, perceived as shot, Holyfield took the Tyson fight and won, then took the Moorer rematch, and then it was Lewis. Looking at the timelines, Lewis and Holyfield could only realistically have met when they actually did.

Okay Chris Byrd. Lewis was 36 and one fight from retirement by then so he vacated his belt for a few million. What an outrage. The rest seem like random names you've just plucked out of thin air: Herbie Hide, Tim Witherspoon, Larry Holmes...what reason would he have to fight them? If Lewis had fought them I guarantee you'd now be writing Hide off as a glass-jawed cruiser and the other two as washed-up 40-somethings.

Excellent post.

You are, I have discovered, a fantasist who simply makes things up out of thin air

Agree its like his fantasy story about John Ruiz knocked Lewis down.

[Kid McCoy]

Didn't Don King pay Lewis to vacate so as he could promote Ruiz fighting for the title? I have a vague memory of this, I'm no expert on the career of Lennox Lewis by any means.
Mind its always nice to know there are some people who know less

Lewis winning the undisputed title effectively froze King out of the heavyweight picture. King wanted to promote a Ruiz vs Holyfield fight for the WBA belt, which led to a lot of legal shenanigans and eventually I think King paid Lewis a lump sum. Of course, that's the other reason to appreciate Lennox Lewis: he did it all in spite of Don King, refusing to sign with him and beating several of his fighters.

[Сливк.]

You are, I have discovered, a fantasist who simply makes things up out of thin air. Now Lewis ducked Roy Jones too? How about Hopkins or Calzaghe or Ricardo Lopez? For all his bluster, there was never much likelihood of Jones fighting Lewis or Tyson, certainly when his stated $100m purse for those fights never materialised. That Jones didn't make a single defence of his heavyweight title should tell you all you need to know.

It's already been pointed out to you several times that Bowe, Moorer and Tyson wouldn't fight Lewis. Bowe vacated his belt to avoid facing Lewis and fought two journeymen. Tyson also vacated his belt to avoid Lewis and then paid Lewis not to face him. Moorer ignored him and opted instead to fight an inactive 45-year-old. Foreman was another who showed no interest in facing Lewis.

However you spin it, Grant was unbeaten and being hyped as the next big American and that was the fight to be made, not Lewis vs Ruiz. Isn't that what boxing fans want, the best making the big fights? The real scandal is not Lewis vacating his belt rather than face Ruiz, but how Ruiz made the #1 contender spot in the first place, given that he'd beaten no one to warrant it and his only noteworthy fight had been his 30 second blowout against Tua.

Had Holyfield beaten Bowe in their first fight I imagine he would have faced Lewis next. No way would Evander disgrace himself by binning his belt the way Bowe did. He and Lewis then had an agreement to meet after Holyfield's defence against Moorer. As it was, he lost to Moorer and then retired for a year with that mysterious heart ailment which killed the fight again. Then, perceived as shot, Holyfield took the Tyson fight and won, then took the Moorer rematch, and then it was Lewis. Looking at the timelines, Lewis and Holyfield could only realistically have met when they actually did.

Okay Chris Byrd. Lewis was 36 and one fight from retirement by then so he vacated his belt for a few million. What an outrage. The rest seem like random names you've just plucked out of thin air: Herbie Hide, Tim Witherspoon, Larry Holmes...what reason would he have to fight them? If Lewis had fought them I guarantee you'd now be writing Hide off as a glass-jawed cruiser and the other two as washed-up 40-somethings.

Great post, I want to quote this again even though it already has because I really really want to make shure sonnboyx2 reads this post and dynamite kid's one. And I cant wait to see his reply to this, unless he decides to duck this post to haha. he really is a biased lewis hater that makes stuff up, its ridiclous.

[sonnyboyx2]

yep good post. I think its pretty obvious Rid**** Bowe ducked Lennox Lewis, I mean that if anything is a fact. yet this sonnyboy guy is trying to tell us otherwise. I mean Bowe dumped his title in a bin rather than face Lewis, it was a blatant duck. And the Tyson thing aswell is pretty obvious, Tyson offered 3$ million for Lewis to step aside which Lewis accepeted yet he says Lewis was the one ducking Tyson? I mean thats ridiclous.

I get a feeling now though that sonnyboyx2 will be the one ducking these posts. and then 1 page later say we havent done anything to proove his "facts" wrong

You have proved nothing.. Rid**** Bowe was The Undisputed Heavyweight Champion of the World in 93 The WBC ordered Bowe to defend their version of his title against Lennox Lewis within 90 days, the Bowe camp made Lewis an offer but Lewis wanted a 50/50 split and options on Bowes next 5 fights should Lewis lose, what Lewis was doing was pricing himself out of the fight knowing the WBC would strip Bowe, so Bowe said, "up you" to Lewis and the WBC and went and signed to fight the winner of the WBA final-eliminator between Ray Mercer v Jesse Ferguson, Bowe took care of business in awesome style the way a true champion does by destroying the No1 contender within 2rds, Bowe then hammered former champion Mike Dokes in the opening round, Dokes was on a 10 fight win streak, Bowe then went on to defend against the IBF No1 contender Evander Holyfield for a $30 million purse where the infamous "Fanman" landed in the ring and held up the fight for 25 minutes, Bowe lost his titles on a split decision.. Lennox Lewis lost his "Garbage Bin Belt" to Oliver McCall in 94 so the Bowe camp immediately offered Lewis $10 million to fight their man.... Lewis turned it down!

Lennox Lewis lost his WBC title to Oliver McCall in 94 McCall defended the title against Larry Holmes in 95 before losing the title to Frank Bruno 5 months later, Mike Tyson was now released from his 4yrs prison incarceration and was No1 contender for Bruno`s WBC title which he won via KO3 in Bruno`s final career fight.. with Tyson the champion the No1 contender was Lennox Lewis, Don King was rooting for "The Fight that never was" Holyfield vs Tyson which was 1st planned for in 1991 so No1 contender Lennox Lewis was offered $3 million to step-a-side while this fight took place... Lewis did not have to abbregate his No1 position, he could have easily said NO and had a guaranteed shot at the title just like he did with the Bowe camp in 93 but Lewis never fancied his chances with that version of Tyson so took the money..

is it ok to say Bowe ducked Lewis by throwing a belt in the bin, is it ok to claim Tyson ducked Lewis by paying step-a-side money to move onto a multi-million dollar fight

But its "Not ok" to say Lennox Lewis was stripped of his WBA belt for refusing to fight the No1 contender John Ruiz.

But its "Not ok" to say Lennox Lewis was to be stripped of his IBF belt for refusing to fight the No1 contender Chris Byrd.

But its "Not ok" to say Lennox Lewis was to be stripped of the WBC title foe refusing to fight a rematch the whole boxing world wanted to see between him and Vitali Klitschko..

But its "Not Ok" to say Lennox Lewis turned down the largest purse in sports history a staggering $35 million + PPV to fight newly crowned WBA heavyweight champion and former middleweight champion Roy Jones jr.

everyone is allowed to say Holyfield got KOd by Toney and Bowe... and that Tyson got KOd by Lewis, Williams, McBride & Douglas... But no-one is allowed to say Lewis got KOd by Rahman and McCall, what you have to say there is that McCall landed a `Lucky-Punch` and that Lewis was "Under-Trained" for Rahman

Talk about Double-standards

[Dynamite Kid]

You have proved nothing.. Rid**** Bowe was The Undisputed Heavyweight Champion of the World in 93 The WBC ordered Bowe to defend their version of his title against Lennox Lewis within 90 days, the Bowe camp made Lewis an offer but Lewis wanted a 50/50 split and options on Bowes next 5 fights should Lewis lose, what Lewis was doing was pricing himself out of the fight knowing the WBC would strip Bowe, so Bowe said, "up you" to Lewis and the WBC and went and signed to fight the winner of the WBA final-eliminator between Ray Mercer v Jesse Ferguson, Bowe took care of business in awesome style the way a true champion does by destroying the No1 contender within 2rds, Bowe then hammered former champion Mike Dokes in the opening round, Dokes was on a 10 fight win streak, Bowe then went on to defend against the IBF No1 contender Evander Holyfield for a $30 million purse where the infamous "Fanman" landed in the ring and held up the fight for 25 minutes, Bowe lost his titles on a split decision.. Lennox Lewis lost his "Garbage Bin Belt" to Oliver McCall in 94 so the Bowe camp immediately offered Lewis $10 million to fight their man.... Lewis turned it down!

Lennox Lewis lost his WBC title to Oliver McCall in 94 McCall defended the title against Larry Holmes in 95 before losing the title to Frank Bruno 5 months later, Mike Tyson was now released from his 4yrs prison incarceration and was No1 contender for Bruno`s WBC title which he won via KO3 in Bruno`s final career fight.. with Tyson the champion the No1 contender was Lennox Lewis, Don King was rooting for "The Fight that never was" Holyfield vs Tyson which was 1st planned for in 1991 so No1 contender Lennox Lewis was offered $3 million to step-a-side while this fight took place... Lewis did not have to abbregate his No1 position, he could have easily said NO and had a guaranteed shot at the title just like he did with the Bowe camp in 93 but Lewis never fancied his chances with that version of Tyson so took the money..

is it ok to say Bowe ducked Lewis by throwing a belt in the bin, is it ok to claim Tyson ducked Lewis by paying step-a-side money to move onto a multi-million dollar fight

But its "Not ok" to say Lennox Lewis was stripped of his WBA belt for refusing to fight the No1 contender John Ruiz.

But its "Not ok" to say Lennox Lewis was to be stripped of his IBF belt for refusing to fight the No1 contender Chris Byrd.

But its "Not ok" to say Lennox Lewis was to be stripped of the WBC title foe refusing to fight a rematch the whole boxing world wanted to see between him and Vitali Klitschko..

But its "Not Ok" to say Lennox Lewis turned down the largest purse in sports history a staggering $35 million + PPV to fight newly crowned WBA heavyweight champion and former middleweight champion Roy Jones jr.

everyone is allowed to say Holyfield got KOd by Toney and Bowe... and that Tyson got KOd by Lewis, Williams, McBride & Douglas... But no-one is allowed to say Lewis got KOd by Rahman and McCall, what you have to say there is that McCall landed a `Lucky-Punch` and that Lewis was "Under-Trained" for Rahman

Talk about Double-standards

50/50 ?

Bull**** he low balled Lewis and was basically saying if you think you can beat me you will accept it, if Bowe had offered 50/50 split he would of bit Bowe's hand off. Why do you make stuff up to suit your argument ? Its lie after lie with you.

Here is Bowe basically saying he low balled Lewis with a 75/25 split.

0.57

[Сливк.]

You have proved nothing.. Rid**** Bowe was The Undisputed Heavyweight Champion of the World in 93 The WBC ordered Bowe to defend their version of his title against Lennox Lewis within 90 days, the Bowe camp made Lewis an offer but Lewis wanted a 50/50 split and options on Bowes next 5 fights should Lewis lose, what Lewis was doing was pricing himself out of the fight knowing the WBC would strip Bowe, so Bowe said, "up you" to Lewis and the WBC and went and signed to fight the winner of the WBA final-eliminator between Ray Mercer v Jesse Ferguson, Bowe took care of business in awesome style the way a true champion does by destroying the No1 contender within 2rds, Bowe then hammered former champion Mike Dokes in the opening round, Dokes was on a 10 fight win streak, Bowe then went on to defend against the IBF No1 contender Evander Holyfield for a $30 million purse where the infamous "Fanman" landed in the ring and held up the fight for 25 minutes, Bowe lost his titles on a split decision.. Lennox Lewis lost his "Garbage Bin Belt" to Oliver McCall in 94 so the Bowe camp immediately offered Lewis $10 million to fight their man.... Lewis turned it down!

Lennox Lewis lost his WBC title to Oliver McCall in 94 McCall defended the title against Larry Holmes in 95 before losing the title to Frank Bruno 5 months later, Mike Tyson was now released from his 4yrs prison incarceration and was No1 contender for Bruno`s WBC title which he won via KO3 in Bruno`s final career fight.. with Tyson the champion the No1 contender was Lennox Lewis, Don King was rooting for "The Fight that never was" Holyfield vs Tyson which was 1st planned for in 1991 so No1 contender Lennox Lewis was offered $3 million to step-a-side while this fight took place... Lewis did not have to abbregate his No1 position, he could have easily said NO and had a guaranteed shot at the title just like he did with the Bowe camp in 93 but Lewis never fancied his chances with that version of Tyson so took the money..

is it ok to say Bowe ducked Lewis by throwing a belt in the bin, is it ok to claim Tyson ducked Lewis by paying step-a-side money to move onto a multi-million dollar fight

But its "Not ok" to say Lennox Lewis was stripped of his WBA belt for refusing to fight the No1 contender John Ruiz.

But its "Not ok" to say Lennox Lewis was to be stripped of his IBF belt for refusing to fight the No1 contender Chris Byrd.

But its "Not ok" to say Lennox Lewis was to be stripped of the WBC title foe refusing to fight a rematch the whole boxing world wanted to see between him and Vitali Klitschko..

But its "Not Ok" to say Lennox Lewis turned down the largest purse in sports history a staggering $35 million + PPV to fight newly crowned WBA heavyweight champion and former middleweight champion Roy Jones jr.

everyone is allowed to say Holyfield got KOd by Toney and Bowe... and that Tyson got KOd by Lewis, Williams, McBride & Douglas... But no-one is allowed to say Lewis got KOd by Rahman and McCall, what you have to say there is that McCall landed a `Lucky-Punch` and that Lewis was "Under-Trained" for Rahman

Talk about Double-standards

1. Rid**** Bowe rather put his title in the thrashcan than fight Lewis, thats a proven fact. How is it Lennox Lewis fault? He wanted to fight Bowe but Bowe didn't want to give him a fair deal. How can Lewis have ducked Bowe when Bowe was the one rather giving up his belt than face Lennox? You are the first one ever that I have seen claim Lennox Lewis ducked Rid**** Bowe.

and go check out Dynamite Kids post one page back on this thread. What you have said so far doesnt even come close to what is in that post.

2. Mike Tyson paid Lennox Lewis 3$ million to step aside so he didn't have to fight him. This is also a proven fact. That you can not dispute. And it is ridiclious on how you try to turn it the other way saying Lennox ducked Tyson for accepting 3$ million as step aside money FOR NOTHING. Mike Tyson did NOT want to fight Lennox Lewis at that time, Why else would he offer step aside money? You answer just this question and I will even type it in big letters just to get your attention. MIKE TYSON DID NOT WANT TO FIGHT LENNOX LEWIS, WHY ELSE WOULD HE OFFER STEP ASIDE MONEY? This one is so basic its silly. How is Lewis the one ducking Tyson when Tyson was the one offering him money not to fight him?

[StarshipTrooper]

50/50 ?

Bull**** he low balled Lewis and was basically saying if you think you can beat me you will accept it, if Bowe had offered 50/50 split he would of bit Bowe's hand off. Why do you make stuff up to suit your argument ? Its lie after lie with you.

Here is Bowe basically saying he low balled Lewis with a 75/25 split.

0.57

HOLY COW!!!!! Don't confuse that boy with FACTS: It might be more than his fragile psyche can handle

Poet