Top 10 Heavies from best to worst

[wpink1]

I think that Tyson will be rememberd sort of how we remember Liston. Hurrican..I have to congratulate you on your post. Especially this section

"Yes Tyson looked so much more impressive against inferior oppostion than Holmes could ever dream of, because of their styles. But Holmes was a better fighter in the fact he could deal with a higher level of fighter better than Tyson could. Tyson looked awesome against grade c fighters but the better the fighter he fought the more he struggled especially if the fight went past 5 rounds and they were not intimidated and could take a punch and fire back.

Because of Tyson's style and the manner in which he dispatched this mediocre opposition his greatness is magnified by many who grew up to witness this. Many of his fans were not boxing fans and became so because of the way he tore threw these opponents and how it was portrayed by both the TV and newspaper media. He got many people interested in the fight game because of how he rejuvinated a dying sport and for that I will be forever grateful to the man, but that does not make him a great great fighter.

His power could have knocked out anybody but his chances against great fighters like Louis,Ali,Holmes,Lewis,Foreman and many more would diminish greatly after a few rounds.

Nevertheless he is probably the most exciting heavyweight of all time, I cannot deny that. But in 50 years time he won't be spoken of as great as he is now when people look back at his achievments, and I think Holmes,Holyfield,Lewis and obvisously Louis and Ali will be held in higher asteem by the vast majority of boxing fans."

It is very clear and very true. Tyson unfortunatley did not have any great wins on his resume vs top top fighters at their peak. Holmes neither, but he did fight a better group of fighters and some of the same contenders earlier in their career. FACT! . Not all his fault, but he also had chances to simply do as Marciano did and that is beat everyone he faced, and he didnt. Now true he did suffer a prison sentence that took him away, but whose fault is that. Funny Tyson comes back and cant beat Douglas or Holyfield twice etc... Ali comes back and wins 2out of 3 with Frazier, Norton, beats forement, shavers, Lyle.....is the champ for a long period of time during a much tougher era with much better fighters...and this is the 2nd tour of duty for Ali...with greatly diminished speed, movment, skills etc...In his first tour he des troyed a Tysonlike fighter in Liston and beat everyone else he fougtht.

Also thanks Hurrican for addressing a very bad attempt at changing your words by London Rules.... It is clear what you said, you never stated Homes or Tyson were class C fighters.....I will say this after Tyson gets hit back a few times he dwarfs from a class a fighter into a class b fighter. Tyson simply folded vs his best competion when he had his chance. Whether prison time took away some of his abilities,,,hmmmm that is something he brought on himself and we judge fighters by what the DO inside the ring not on what they could have done....Ali is judge by what he did, Holmes by what he did, He Ray leonard came back from retirment and beat hagler..What he did . These are great fighters..Tyson came back and got the floor sweeped with him by Douglas and Holyfiield. I do not count Lewis as he was completley shot by then and every fighter has that fight in him when he should not have been fighting anymore...Chavez, Ali, Duran, Holmes, Leonard, Robinson...almost all of them.

[Hawkins]

Been away for 5 days and just catching up on your discussions.

I have to say that both Holmes and Tyson both fought in weak eras compared to Ali and Lewis.

I have to agree with Hawkins and LRR on certain points.

While both fought relatively weak opposition I think that regarding common opponents Holmes fought them when they were younger and stronger but some of Tyson's other opponents like Bruno and Tucker were better than the Rodriguez's of this world.

So what I'm trying to say is there isn't much difference in their oppostion at all.

While I disagree with LRR on quite a lot of things I do see what he was trying to say about Ali slipping in the rankings, not by a lot but from 1st to 2nd.

Yes Tyson looked so much more impressive against inferior oppostion than Holmes could ever dream of, because of their styles. But Holmes was a better fighter in the fact he could deal with a higher level of fighter better than Tyson could. Tyson looked awesome against grade c fighters but the better the fighter he fought the more he struggled especially if the fight went past 5 rounds and they were not intimidated and could take a punch and fire back.

Because of Tyson's style and the manner in which he dispatched this mediocre opposition his greatness is magnified by many who grew up to witness this. Many of his fans were not boxing fans and became so because of the way he tore threw these opponents and how it was portrayed by both the TV and newspaper media. He got many people interested in the fight game because of how he rejuvinated a dying sport and for that I will be forever grateful to the man, but that does not make him a great great fighter.

His power could have knocked out anybody but his chances against great fighters like Louis,Ali,Holmes,Lewis,Foreman and many more would diminish greatly after a few rounds.

Nevertheless he is probably the most exciting heavyweight of all time, I cannot deny that. But in 50 years time he won't be spoken of as great as he is now when people look back at his achievments, and I think Holmes,Holyfield,Lewis and obvisously Louis and Ali will be held in higher asteem by the vast majority of boxing fans.

Just like Jack Dempsey before him who was regarded as the best or one of the top3 now has slipped down many ratings lists. There are many similarities in Tyson and Dempsey. And over the next few decades Tyson will slip down many peoples all time lists.

Great post, man.

** Unbelievable.

Don't know which is more preposterous, the claim that would have to follow using this logic that Holmes and Spinks were grade c fighters.

Or perhaps next post claiming that Larry could even think of beating prime Louis when Larry lost to every prime HOF heavy he ever faced, with Louis being the consensus best HOF heavy ever.

Unbelievable.

I'm seriously starting to wonder if you actually read what people post.

[StarshipTrooper]

Well, I have LRR on ignore so I miss most of his deluded rantings. However that doesn't stop him from showing up in peoples posts and from what I've read there it's clear he STILL knows nothing about boxing. Holmes losing to every HOF fighter he faced? Norton and Shavers are in the HOF dude and I don't see an L next to those names on Larry's record.

The truth of the matter is LRR has a serious axe to grind: He loves Tyson and seeks to boost him up at ever opportunity; he hates Holmes and he SERIOUSLY hates Ali and tries to tear them down at every opportunity. Everyone reading this guys posts needs to realize it's propaganda not knowledge that's being dispensed. I personally chose not to read him at all.

Poet

[them_apples]

don't worry poet, nobody gives a **** ass. Soon you will have the whole forum on ignore!

If I'm not mistaken, you look at records and numbers more than many posters on here.

You are mistaken, because thats one thing I hardly ever do.

[LondonRingRules]

Why do you have to turn what someone says into something different.

I not once stated Holmes or Spinks were grade c fighters.

Originally Posted by hurricane72
Tyson looked awesome against grade c fighters but the better the fighter he fought the more he struggled.

** Something either wrong with your logic or the way you express your logic.

Tyson completely and utterly shut these two down with barely a flick of his gloves. Either they were grade c fighters according to your logic, or you misstated your logic.

Holmes and Spinks both HOFers and undefeated according to their supporters who contest their two fights. Holmes past his best, but still wins 6 more fights after Tyson before lasting the distance against Holy and then wins 7 more fights before lasting the distance against McCall, all fights many years later. Spinks never down in his career, and neither ever KOed before or since.

As far as Hawkins goes, don't worry about what I read. You stated you have your business to run and a newborn child and wife after a difficult birth, yet post over a dozen times a day. Truly hope your priorities are straight.

Oh, an almost forgot about the poor man's Poet, don't you know it? Has me on ignore, yet rags on me every other day. A real comic.

[Hawkins]

As far as Hawkins goes, don't worry about what I read. You stated you have your business to run and a newborn child and wife after a difficult birth, yet post over a dozen times a day. Truly hope your priorities are straight.

And you accuse me of histrionics?

[The Iron Man]

History has been kind to all heavyweights with bad reputations and bad pasts. Liston had massive gang links, and wasnt the cleaniest fighter of them all. Louis was a major womeniser (spelling?), Ali was hated for not going to war. Many fighters had terrible things going on outside the ring especially the great heavis. Over time its forgotten and they are rememberd for being great fighters, which i think will happen to tyson and i agree in time lewis will be more highly regarded!

[-CANE-]

I think that Tyson will be rememberd sort of how we remember Liston. Hurrican..I have to congratulate you on your post. Especially this section



It is very clear and very true. Tyson unfortunatley did not have any great wins on his resume vs top top fighters at their peak. Holmes neither, but he did fight a better group of fighters and some of the same contenders earlier in their career. FACT! . Not all his fault, but he also had chances to simply do as Marciano did and that is beat everyone he faced, and he didnt. Now true he did suffer a prison sentence that took him away, but whose fault is that. Funny Tyson comes back and cant beat Douglas or Holyfield twice etc... Ali comes back and wins 2out of 3 with Frazier, Norton, beats forement, shavers, Lyle.....is the champ for a long period of time during a much tougher era with much better fighters...and this is the 2nd tour of duty for Ali...with greatly diminished speed, movment, skills etc...In his first tour he des troyed a Tysonlike fighter in Liston and beat everyone else he fougtht.

Also thanks Hurrican for addressing a very bad attempt at changing your words by London Rules.... It is clear what you said, you never stated Homes or Tyson were class C fighters.....I will say this after Tyson gets hit back a few times he dwarfs from a class a fighter into a class b fighter. Tyson simply folded vs his best competion when he had his chance. Whether prison time took away some of his abilities,,,hmmmm that is something he brought on himself and we judge fighters by what the DO inside the ring not on what they could have done....Ali is judge by what he did, Holmes by what he did, He Ray leonard came back from retirment and beat hagler..What he did . These are great fighters..Tyson came back and got the floor sweeped with him by Douglas and Holyfiield. I do not count Lewis as he was completley shot by then and every fighter has that fight in him when he should not have been fighting anymore...Chavez, Ali, Duran, Holmes, Leonard, Robinson...almost all of them.

Thanks for the comments man. You're right about Tyson and the other fighters, It's what you do in the ring and not what you could of done.

It's also about how you come back from defeat or adversity which all the greats did. I give Tyson credit after the Douglas defeat for his 2 wins against Ruddock and probably for the only time in his career he dug a little deep when someone stood up to him and fired back but while impressive in some ways the fights also proved that Tyson wasn't what everyone cracked him up to be and certainly wasn't invincible.

Ali,Louis,Holyfield and Lewis all suffered defeats yet came back to avenge them which is the true mark of greatness. Their defeats would also have finished many other careers. Ali's to Frazier was a gruelling fight and Ali wasn't the same fighter after that time out yet still avenged that defeat and won the title twice more. Louis' defeat against Schmeling would have finished many other fighters yet avenged it with venom and then reigned for nearly 12 years. Holyfield's defeat against a much bigger Bowe was another gruelling fight yet Holyfield proved us wrong so many times after that and avenged that defeat also. And Lewis while getting ko'd twice against lower grade fighters which you think would have seriously dented his confidence again managed to avenge both defeats in emphatic fashion proving his greatness by defeating everyone he ever faced, which I think only Marciano can match that claim but with no defeats.

It's a shame LRR is so blinkered when it comes to Tyson,Holmes and Ali and he makes himself look ****** sometimes which he isn't because when not talking of these fighters he has a fair bit of boxing knowledge. But when talking of these fighters something in his brain takes over and he refuses to read what people are trying to say and goes off on a silly rant and twists what people are actually trying to say.

[Dorian]

Best Heavis ever
1, James Toney
2, Samuel Peter
3,Wladimir Klistchko
4,Vitali Klistchko
5, Lennox Lewis
6,Joe Louis
7, Mike Tyson
8, Evander Holyfield
9, Muhammad Ali
10, John Ruiz

[LondonRingRules]

It's a shame LRR is so blinkered when it comes to Tyson,Holmes and Ali and he makes himself look ****** sometimes which he isn't because when not talking of these fighters he has a fair bit of boxing knowledge. But when talking of these fighters something in his brain takes over and he refuses to read what people are trying to say and goes off on a silly rant and twists what people are actually trying to say.

** Blinkered eh? Is that like going off on a silly rant and twisting what I say?

I rank Ali 2nd greatest heavy ever, well above Tyson, yet any factual observation I make about his weaknesses causes some to say I'm blinkered. Is he some kind of religious saint or a blood and flesh man of the ring?

I don't rate Holmes nearly so high, just outside the top 10 because he almost never met the best of his era in their primes. Simple fact that can be proven by understanding he was fighting in the golden 70s era the nostalgic always moisten themselves over until he is upset by Spinks, the best prime fighter he ever faced to that point. I even provided more than a dozen names. Can you refute those names?

Let's see it. Getting a bit tired of you chaps hiding behind tossing out sissy insults instead of facts, figures, and logic. Can you back up anything, either in or out of the ring? Holmes met up with an old man Ali 8 yrs after Holmes turns pro, 8 long years, and Ali the oldest on my list.