Top 10 Heavies from best to worst

[lolivivi]

reply

1>Muhammad
2>Ali Larry Holmes
3> Lennox Lewis
4> Joe Louis
5> Evander Holyfield
6> Jack Johnson
7> George Foreman

Alll of them are my superman.yeah.

[K-DOGG]

I've probably done this before a long time ago; but hell, I ain't doin' nothing at the moment....and my list always changes a little with time.

Anyway, this is the list....explanations for rankings to be forthcoming.


1. Muhammad Ali
2. Joe Louis
3. everybody else... Jes kiddin'.

3. Lennox Lewis
4. Jack Johnson
5. Larry Holmes
6. Jack Dempsey
7. Evander Holyfield
8. Joe Frazier
9. Rocky Marciano
10. George Foreman


Honorable mentions:

Sonny Liston
Mike Tyson
Ezzard Charles
Gene Tunney
Sam Langford

[-CANE-]

I've probably done this before a long time ago; but hell, I ain't doin' nothing at the moment....and my list always changes a little with time.

Anyway, this is the list....explanations for rankings to be forthcoming.


1. Muhammad Ali
2. Joe Louis
3. everybody else... Jes kiddin'.

3. Lennox Lewis
4. Jack Johnson
5. Larry Holmes
6. Jack Dempsey
7. Evander Holyfield
8. Joe Frazier
9. Rocky Marciano
10. George Foreman


Honorable mentions:

Sonny Liston
Mike Tyson
Ezzard Charles
Gene Tunney
Sam Langford

Nice list and look forward to your explanations.

[StarshipTrooper]

I've probably done this before a long time ago; but hell, I ain't doin' nothing at the moment....and my list always changes a little with time.

Anyway, this is the list....explanations for rankings to be forthcoming.


1. Muhammad Ali
2. Joe Louis
3. everybody else... Jes kiddin'.

3. Lennox Lewis
4. Jack Johnson
5. Larry Holmes
6. Jack Dempsey
7. Evander Holyfield
8. Joe Frazier
9. Rocky Marciano
10. George Foreman


Honorable mentions:

Sonny Liston
Mike Tyson
Ezzard Charles
Gene Tunney
Sam Langford

Pretty decent list.....considering some of the wacked out ones we've gotten lately it's rather a breath of fresh air :chuckle9:

PS. This is my 10,000th post and I saved it for this thread: The premier thread of the Boxing History section

Poet

[K-DOGG]

Alright, here we go....the first 5:

Muhammad Ali: Numero Uno primarily because of the calibre of competition defeated; Sonny Liston, Floyd Patterson, and Ernie Terrell the most impressive in the first career, Joe Frazier, Jerry Quarrey, Ken Norton, George Foreman, Ron Lyle, and Earnie Shavers in the second. Alson, Ali had to overcome the affects of a three year layoff and change his style of fighting completely against a higher level of competition after he was past his peak. He went from being a super athlete, ala Roy Jones Jr to a fierce and crafty warrior who used guile more than skill to outwit and outhit his opponents in career # 2. Not to mention, he is still the only man to win the lineal World Heavyweight Championship on three separate occasions.

Joe Louis: Arguablely #1; but for this poll, # 2. Couple of reasons Louis deserves this amount of recognition all these years later. Number one, he made more title defenses, "25" than anyone ever will again. Number two, he reigned longer than anyone else ever will....damn near 12 years. Granted, WWII helped out with four of those; but still. Also, look at the level of competition defeated: Max Baer one fight after he lost the title in a huge upset to Braddock....and Louis destroyed him. Max Schmeling, a more than competent opponent who had defeated Louis once....and he beat him under more pressure than any fighter has ever faced on the eve of the Second World War. The president told Louis he had to win....and Louis did in just over 2 minutes.....crippling his adversary in the process. He also beat notables such as King Levinski, Lou Nova, Billy Conn, and Jersey Joe Wallcott. Speaking of Walcott, Louis definetly lost the first fight and, well past his prime, showed the heart, grit, and determintation of a true champion by besting Jersey Joe in the rematch and the final defense of his career.

Lennox Lewis: The first modern entry and for good reason. Lewis beat the best of a very good era: Razor Ruddock, Ray Mercer, Tommy Morrison, David Tua, Hasim Rahman, Evander Holyfield, and Vitali Klitschko. The only names missing are Rid**** Bowe....either Bowe or Rock Newman were afraid to make this fight, Mike Tyson.....prison (I don't reall count the shallacking Lewis gave the old shot Tyson), Ike Ibeabuchi.....prison, George Foreman....didn't want him , and Wladimir Klitschko....KTFO'd by Corrie Sanders when the fight was getting to be a possibility. Lewis was run from.....Bowe & Tyson notably: Tyson chose to fight Bruce Seldon and a "supposedly shot" Holyfield rather than defend his WBC belt against Lewis. The 1990's and early 2000's were chock full of talent and Lewis beat all of them or scared them off; and avenged the only two defeates of his career, impressively in the Rahman case. With his size and skill, Lewis would have held his own in any decade and beaten many of the "all-time greats".

Jack Johnson: Beat the best White and Black fighters of his era prior to chasing Tommy Burns halfway around the world for an unprecedented shot at the title. Names such as Sam McVey, Joe Jeanette, Denver Ed Martin, and Sam Langford are all over his resume in multiple slots. Arguably the greatest defensive fighter of all time, he made the "Great White Hopes" of the era look like Great White Jokes. Downside: he didn't defend against Langford when he was in his prime, nor Jeanette, nor McVey; but under the circumstances at the time, IMO, it is understandable.

Larry Holmes: Fantastic jab and a heart for days. Holmes beat everyone put in front of him for 48 fights and showed grit and championship intestinal fortitude on numerous occasions. Against competition such as Mike Weaver, Earnie Shavers, Ken Norton, Renaldo Snipes, and Tim Witherspoon, he had to dig down deep to find that something extra that only champions have.....to win. Downside, due to the political climate of his era, he didn't fight the best out there: Michael Dokes, Gerrie Coetzee, Pinklon Thomas....and rematches with Weaver and Witherspoon would have gone a long way to securing his legacy. Also, many of his defenses were against "green" fighters.....fighters with less than 20 matches under their belts hurried along by their and Larry's promoter, Don King, to give Larry a relatively "easy" defense against undefeated opposistion.


That's all for now...the other 5 explantions to come.

[JAB5239]

Alright, here we go....the first 5:

Muhammad Ali: Numero Uno primarily because of the calibre of competition defeated; Sonny Liston, Floyd Patterson, and Ernie Terrell the most impressive in the first career, Joe Frazier, Jerry Quarrey, Ken Norton, George Foreman, Ron Lyle, and Earnie Shavers in the second. Alson, Ali had to overcome the affects of a three year layoff and change his style of fighting completely against a higher level of competition after he was past his peak. He went from being a super athlete, ala Roy Jones Jr to a fierce and crafty warrior who used guile more than skill to outwit and outhit his opponents in career # 2. Not to mention, he is still the only man to win the lineal World Heavyweight Championship on three separate occasions.

Joe Louis: Arguablely #1; but for this poll, # 2. Couple of reasons Louis deserves this amount of recognition all these years later. Number one, he made more title defenses, "25" than anyone ever will again. Number two, he reigned longer than anyone else ever will....damn near 12 years. Granted, WWII helped out with four of those; but still. Also, look at the level of competition defeated: Max Baer one fight after he lost the title in a huge upset to Braddock....and Louis destroyed him. Max Schmeling, a more than competent opponent who had defeated Louis once....and he beat him under more pressure than any fighter has ever faced on the eve of the Second World War. The president told Louis he had to win....and Louis did in just over 2 minutes.....crippling his adversary in the process. He also beat notables such as King Levinski, Lou Nova, Billy Conn, and Jersey Joe Wallcott. Speaking of Walcott, Louis definetly lost the first fight and, well past his prime, showed the heart, grit, and determintation of a true champion by besting Jersey Joe in the rematch and the final defense of his career.

Lennox Lewis: The first modern entry and for good reason. Lewis beat the best of a very good era: Razor Ruddock, Ray Mercer, Tommy Morrison, David Tua, Hasim Rahman, Evander Holyfield, and Vitali Klitschko. The only names missing are Rid**** Bowe....either Bowe or Rock Newman were afraid to make this fight, Mike Tyson.....prison (I don't reall count the shallacking Lewis gave the old shot Tyson), Ike Ibeabuchi.....prison, George Foreman....didn't want him , and Wladimir Klitschko....KTFO'd by Corrie Sanders when the fight was getting to be a possibility. Lewis was run from.....Bowe & Tyson notably: Tyson chose to fight Bruce Seldon and a "supposedly shot" Holyfield rather than defend his WBC belt against Lewis. The 1990's and early 2000's were chock full of talent and Lewis beat all of them or scared them off; and avenged the only two defeates of his career, impressively in the Rahman case. With his size and skill, Lewis would have held his own in any decade and beaten many of the "all-time greats".

Jack Johnson: Beat the best White and Black fighters of his era prior to chasing Tommy Burns halfway around the world for an unprecedented shot at the title. Names such as Sam McVey, Joe Jeanette, Denver Ed Martin, and Sam Langford are all over his resume in multiple slots. Arguably the greatest defensive fighter of all time, he made the "Great White Hopes" of the era look like Great White Jokes. Downside: he didn't defend against Langford when he was in his prime, nor Jeanette, nor McVey; but under the circumstances at the time, IMO, it is understandable.

Larry Holmes: Fantastic jab and a heart for days. Holmes beat everyone put in front of him for 48 fights and showed grit and championship intestinal fortitude on numerous occasions. Against competition such as Mike Weaver, Earnie Shavers, Ken Norton, Renaldo Snipes, and Tim Witherspoon, he had to dig down deep to find that something extra that only champions have.....to win. Downside, due to the political climate of his era, he didn't fight the best out there: Michael Dokes, Gerrie Coetzee, Pinklon Thomas....and rematches with Weaver and Witherspoon would have gone a long way to securing his legacy. Also, many of his defenses were against "green" fighters.....fighters with less than 20 matches under their belts hurried along by their and Larry's promoter, Don King, to give Larry a relatively "easy" defense against undefeated opposistion.


That's all for now...the other 5 explantions to come.

We have a slightly different order, but the same top 5. Good job so far. Green K will be coming as soon as I reload.


1. Joe Louis
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Larry Holmes
4. Jack Johnson
5. Lennox Lewis

[ANDREW ANUBIS]

Top ten heavies

My ten greatest heavyweights
1. Muhammes ali
2. Joe louis
3. Mike tyson
4.rocky marciano
5 jack dempsey
6. Larry holmes
7. Sonny liston
8. Jack johnson
9. Lennox lewis
10. Vitali klitscho

firstly i have nothing but respect for joe louis longest champ 12 years and a clinical skilled boxer with a sledgehammer in both hands, and now the but the ali who fought williams, folley etc could have picked him off at range while dancing on his toes all night long, and ali fought liston,shavers, williams and foreman who were all devastating punchers but it did not matter he won because his speed, brain and rapid fire punches lewis while a great boxer always had problems with skillful quick fighters eg tommy farr, billy conn and as schmeling showed straight right hands were his enemy and ali would have hammered louis with them all night long, the other reason ali number one louis did not possess quick feet he did not dance on his toes he was a more static poised fighter who took opponents apart with those short devastating hooks but ali would dance backward and laterally all night long and louis would follow ali would jab jab right dance around jab jab right dance all night and by round ten i think louis would be demorilised and accumlative effect as schmeling did to him he would not last the distance

[zebgonzo]

So, this is my list. So many forgot the best HW all time.

1. Peter Jackson (No, I'm not australian)
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Joe Louis
4. Sonny Liston (In terms of what could have been)
5. Lennox Lewis
6. Joe Frazier (Shouldve had another tactic vs Foreman)
7. Rocky Marciano (Wouldve stood up for Shavers best punches)
8. Larry Holmes
9. George Foreman (Because he managed to come back)
10. Vitali Klitschko (Maybe will change my mind in favour of his bro)

[K-DOGG]

Jack Dempsey Dempsey deserves to be here all these decades later for several reasons. He is smallish by today's heavyweight standards; but who isn't? Ultimately we can all agree that modern training techniques have helped to increase bulk; but bulk does not a great fighter make....bulk just makes a bigger fighter. Dempsey was as vicious as a caged tiger and was the first truly modern heavyweight as far as fighting styles are concerned. He beat the top contenders on the way to Willard: Gunboat Smith, Bill Brennan, Billy Miske...before he became ill, and giant 6' 5" 250LB Fred Fulton....and he destroyed him in one. Also, he beat nobably boxers of the day in Georges Carpentier, Tommy Gibbons, and Bill Brennan again and warred with the crude beast Luis "Angel" Firpo to defend his crown before going Hollywood for 3 years. Ultimately, Dempsey was a force of nature who could have beaten any of the more modern heavyweights based purely on his tenacity. Remember, for everything we gain (modern training techniques and modern purses) we lose something (true unadulterated hunger). Dempsey's punching power, tenacity, speed, and skill...he could box, too, vaulted him to the top of the heap, his heart...climbing back in the ring to knock out Firpo made him a legend. Downside: he didn't fight Harry Wills or George Godfrey, two leading Black fighters of the era; but, due to the climate of the time, IMO, it's understandable.

Evander Holyfield Holyfield was as throw-back as you could get in the late 20th Century. He fought the best of a better than average era and beat most of them: Michael Dokes, George Foreman, Rid**** Bowe (3 times), Michael Moorer (twice), Ray Mercer, Mike Tyson (twice)....though not the best Tyson, he was still dangerous, Lennox Lewis (twice), Hasim Rahman, and Chris Byrd; and that's not even counting his wars at Cruiserweight. He avenged those who defeated him until Father Time ganged up on him with the best of them. Holy showed true grit and never backed down from a fight. He showed skill...both legal and illegal , and tons of heart. Holyfield always seemed to be at his best when he was on the verge of disaster, and that is the key to greatness. IMO, he would have held his own in any era.

Joe Frazier Very similar to Holyfield in many regards....and Dempsey, for that matter. Similar to both in terms of heart, similar to Dempsey and, later Marciano, in terms of style. Names such as Quarrey, Bonavena, Mathis, Ellis, and Muhammad Ali decorate his resume. His "smokin'" style of attrition guaranteed a short career; but very exciting fights and the type of pressure that would have put any of the heavyweight greats.....with the exception of George Foreman .....under the gun and possibly on the mat. Joe was the first man to ever "unify" a broken title and fought most of his career legally blind in one eye. Imagine what he could have done with two good eyes. Joe's negative, which is not his fault, is that Ali was not really at his best when Joe fought his best fight; but that doesn't mean Joe couldn't have beaten a prime Ali.

Rocky Marciano Some don't want to give the Rock enough credit, and some want to give him too much. I try to straddle the fence of truth. First, here are the facts: 1. No one ever beat him....possilbe exception being Roland LaStarza in the first fight. 2. Ezzard Charles, Archie Moore, and Jersey Joe Walcott were three of the most dangerous pound-per-pound fighters to ever live, and past their best or not, they were still dangerous as hell......look at old George Foreman, Larry Holmes, James Toney, Bernard Hopkins, etc. if you need a current example; and Rock beat them after taking a shallacking in some cases. Heart is the keystone to greatness and Rock had it in spades. And 3. NOBODY EVER BEAT HIM. There's no blueprint for how to beat an undefeated fighter and that plus the above names and the contenders he squashed on the way up, who were bigger than him...is why he's here.

George Foreman Power, Heart, Determination, and an Iron Will that beat father time. He kayoed Fraxier and Norton like they were nobodies, Warred with Ron Lyle like his life was on the line, gave the most well conditioned champion ever a run for his money at age 42, and kayoed a 26 year old prime of his life Michael Moorer in the 10th round....of a fight he was taking a beating in....to become the oldes Heavyweight Champoion ever....NUFF Said.

[-CANE-]

Jack Dempsey Dempsey deserves to be here all these decades later for several reasons. He is smallish by today's heavyweight standards; but who isn't? Ultimately we can all agree that modern training techniques have helped to increase bulk; but bulk does not a great fighter make....bulk just makes a bigger fighter. Dempsey was as vicious as a caged tiger and was the first truly modern heavyweight as far as fighting styles are concerned. He beat the top contenders on the way to Willard: Gunboat Smith, Bill Brennan, Billy Miske...before he became ill, and giant 6' 5" 250LB Fred Fulton....and he destroyed him in one. Also, he beat nobably boxers of the day in Georges Carpentier, Tommy Gibbons, and Bill Brennan again and warred with the crude beast Luis "Angel" Firpo to defend his crown before going Hollywood for 3 years. Ultimately, Dempsey was a force of nature who could have beaten any of the more modern heavyweights based purely on his tenacity. Remember, for everything we gain (modern training techniques and modern purses) we lose something (true unadulterated hunger). Dempsey's punching power, tenacity, speed, and skill...he could box, too, vaulted him to the top of the heap, his heart...climbing back in the ring to knock out Firpo made him a legend. Downside: he didn't fight Harry Wills or George Godfrey, two leading Black fighters of the era; but, due to the climate of the time, IMO, it's understandable.

Evander Holyfield Holyfield was as throw-back as you could get in the late 20th Century. He fought the best of a better than average era and beat most of them: Michael Dokes, George Foreman, Rid**** Bowe (3 times), Michael Moorer (twice), Ray Mercer, Mike Tyson (twice)....though not the best Tyson, he was still dangerous, Lennox Lewis (twice), Hasim Rahman, and Chris Byrd; and that's not even counting his wars at Cruiserweight. He avenged those who defeated him until Father Time ganged up on him with the best of them. Holy showed true grit and never backed down from a fight. He showed skill...both legal and illegal , and tons of heart. Holyfield always seemed to be at his best when he was on the verge of disaster, and that is the key to greatness. IMO, he would have held his own in any era.

Joe Frazier Very similar to Holyfield in many regards....and Dempsey, for that matter. Similar to both in terms of heart, similar to Dempsey and, later Marciano, in terms of style. Names such as Quarrey, Bonavena, Mathis, Ellis, and Muhammad Ali decorate his resume. His "smokin'" style of attrition guaranteed a short career; but very exciting fights and the type of pressure that would have put any of the heavyweight greats.....with the exception of George Foreman .....under the gun and possibly on the mat. Joe was the first man to ever "unify" a broken title and fought most of his career legally blind in one eye. Imagine what he could have done with two good eyes. Joe's negative, which is not his fault, is that Ali was not really at his best when Joe fought his best fight; but that doesn't mean Joe couldn't have beaten a prime Ali.

Rocky Marciano Some don't want to give the Rock enough credit, and some want to give him too much. I try to straddle the fence of truth. First, here are the facts: 1. No one ever beat him....possilbe exception being Roland LaStarza in the first fight. 2. Ezzard Charles, Archie Moore, and Jersey Joe Walcott were three of the most dangerous pound-per-pound fighters to ever live, and past their best or not, they were still dangerous as hell......look at old George Foreman, Larry Holmes, James Toney, Bernard Hopkins, etc. if you need a current example; and Rock beat them after taking a shallacking in some cases. Heart is the keystone to greatness and Rock had it in spades. And 3. NOBODY EVER BEAT HIM. There's no blueprint for how to beat an undefeated fighter and that plus the above names and the contenders he squashed on the way up, who were bigger than him...is why he's here.

George Foreman Power, Heart, Determination, and an Iron Will that beat father time. He kayoed Fraxier and Norton like they were nobodies, Warred with Ron Lyle like his life was on the line, gave the most well conditioned champion ever a run for his money at age 42, and kayoed a 26 year old prime of his life Michael Moorer in the 10th round....of a fight he was taking a beating in....to become the oldes Heavyweight Champoion ever....NUFF Said.

Brilliant post and the bolded is so true. Old time fighters really were putting their life on the line and they had to. Key reason why we don't get so many great fights today that and the fact that safety has become much more important.