Top 10 Heavies from best to worst

[Barn]

Yes I was certainly kidding,... I was 'avin a laugh,............................................ ............ ,.......... In Fact I was getting worried that NO-ONE had made a poke at me,..... in fact I know little about him, no one does !!!!!!,.... if anyone does, I'd be interested to hear it....... .... The bit that I know tempts me to put him in the "Worst HW Champions ever and a bit of a fake like the other two that I don't rate any higher than him, and they are centuries apart, first John Ruiz, we know him,.... Gentleman John Jackson who had only THREE career FIGHTS ??????,.. and of course Marvin Hart, the man who would have been a 100 to 1 chance of beating Willard and probably would have been THRASHED by GANS.............. I'm, not surprised, Barnburner, that you were the first to notice,,,,...... you knew I was kiddin'. Dinch ya !!

Yeah I knew you were joking

Basically when Jeffries retired he chose Jack Root and Marvin Hart to fight each other for the Heavyweight title as they were the best claimants (that weren't black). He then lost the title a few easy fights later to Tommy Burns which Johnson then took.

Although, he did beat Johnson in a 20 round decision shortly before the title fight, I'm not sure the legitimacy of this decision though. It was never avenged,

[Barn]

yeah,.. I've been laughing for days about it.... I like to make a bogus post now and then, it's not seemly for an Australian "Bloke" to be seen with a stiff upper lip, and we got good reasons too,..... ever seen "Breaker Morant". one of the great movies..... anyway, the Aussies told the poms at their firing squad to "shoot straight ya bastards",... and that's just one reason.

Now we're done with that what's your serious list mines is.

1. Muhammad Ali
2. Joe Louis
3. Larry Holmes
4. George Foreman
5. Lennox Lewis
6. Rocky Marciano
7. Sonny Liston
8. Joe Frazier
9. Jack Johnson
10. Harry Wills

[McGoorty]

Now we're done with that what's your serious list mines is.

1. Muhammad Ali
2. Joe Louis
3. Larry Holmes
4. George Foreman
5. Lennox Lewis
6. Rocky Marciano
7. Sonny Liston
8. Joe Frazier
9. Jack Johnson
10. Harry Wills

This is tough Barney !!!,,. I think of different criteria lists,.... mainly I try to come up with 3 lists (after I make up a shortlist of about triple as many as I need).:---- 1. - Is a Greatness List with Achievements,.. Are they the Best of their era and are they historically rated as a Legend and their pure statistics, ... and Two Head to head matchups Lists (i.e. who would Ph*** up the other guy in a real fight),... the two H to H lists are based on their sizes, first a Small Heavyweights list,.. any on from Fitzsimmons to Joe Louis or Marciano size,... and the BIG or Super HW List with say Ali to Klitschko and above....The Greatness List would tend to equally represent most eras equally and creates a nicely balanced looking List,..... BUT does that list mean anything in a real world contest between Jack Dempsey and Vitali and the like ???... Personally I don't think we can ever know,.. unless we gain admittance into Valhalla !!I will take a day or two maybe to come up with two different lists,............ one other thing, somedays I think Ali would beat Marciano and some days I go the other way,.... same with say Ali and Louis....... but I do have a few differences with your list, and will go through some again soon. Having said that I love that list because it's not gonna be everyone's cup 'O Tea and it's in yer face, so if'n they don't like it, Quote Vinnie Barbarino,... up yer nose with a ....etc.

[McGoorty]

Now we're done with that what's your serious list mines is.

1. Muhammad Ali
2. Joe Louis
3. Larry Holmes
4. George Foreman
5. Lennox Lewis
6. Rocky Marciano
7. Sonny Liston
8. Joe Frazier
9. Jack Johnson
10. Harry Wills

One other thing Barney, With the head to head lists, my first rule is if they both actually met, I'll usually always rate the winner of that fight or series, as long as both were within reason, reasonably matched fairly at the Time. Obviously in cases where an older fighter who was virtually gone at time of fight, or when a very young and inexperienced fighter loses to on in his Prime or near-abouts,.......................Once I have that out of the way, I'll go through some different criteria and try rating different fighters strengths and percieved weaknesses,....................................... ..... As you can see, I don't take any of this too lightly..... regards.

[McGoorty]

One other thing Barney, With the head to head lists, my first rule is if they both actually met, I'll usually always rate the winner of that fight or series, as long as both were within reason, reasonably matched fairly at the Time. Obviously in cases where an older fighter who was virtually gone at time of fight, or when a very young and inexperienced fighter loses to on in his Prime or near-abouts,.......................Once I have that out of the way, I'll go through some different criteria and try rating different fighters strengths and percieved weaknesses,....................................... ..... As you can see, I don't take any of this too lightly..... regards.

Take Lennox for instance, I think that p4p Evander was every bit as good, but Lewis's height and weight advantage was great, I'm not saying better, .... but just as good, so there's no reason to give no chance amongst the lighter half of the HW Division....................Incidentally Barney which weight would you divide the little HW's from the SHW's,...... 210 ? maybe ?..... I think having Two head to head HW divisions would give a lot more scope, depth and variation to the rest of this thread, I reckon It'd be cool.////

[Barn]

I would give Super-Heavy 230+ Prime weight.

As for ranking I go resume and accomplishments and use H2H or result of matches as a tie breaker.

[McGoorty]

I would give Super-Heavy 230+ Prime weight.

As for ranking I go resume and accomplishments and use H2H or result of matches as a tie breaker.

O.K. then two lists with the SmallHW's of anyone from Tommy Burns and Langford up to 230 as the cut off limit ( some can still be able to Try for the BigHW's,.......... TWO-HUNDRED and Thirty, I'll get to work on two short lists and I'll get serious and come up with the H2H lists,...... and it'll be up to you to MAKE Me change my rankings,.... if you can logically do that we may come up with GREAT Lists,.........................--Because I want to discuss the Marciano's and Langfords as well as the Foremans and Wlad/Lewis/Vitali's/Ali's and co................................................ . .. There is a 4th list possibility,..... the P4P HW ATG's.........,Later 4 that one.

[McGoorty]

O.K. then two lists with the SmallHW's of anyone from Tommy Burns and Langford up to 230 as the cut off limit ( some can still be able to Try for the BigHW's,.......... TWO-HUNDRED and Thirty, I'll get to work on two short lists and I'll get serious and come up with the H2H lists,...... and it'll be up to you to MAKE Me change my rankings,.... if you can logically do that we may come up with GREAT Lists,.........................--Because I want to discuss the Marciano's and Langfords as well as the Foremans and Wlad/Lewis/Vitali's/Ali's and co................................................ . .. There is a 4th list possibility,..... the P4P HW ATG's.........,Later 4 that one.

Small HW's first,....... a top 10 shortlist, -- Marciano, Louis, Johnson, Jeffries, Fitzsimmons, Dempsey, Frazier, Holyfield, A young Clay, Ezzard Charles, Jersey Joe Walcott, a young Tyson, Corbett, Tunney, P. Jackson, John L. Sullivan, Joe Choynski, Harry Wills, Sam LangFord, Joe Jeannette,.. are there any more to consider before I get down to the task of rating them all as if in their prime,.... I miss any obvious one's Barney ?????

[Barn]

Small HW's first,....... a top 10 shortlist, -- Marciano, Louis, Johnson, Jeffries, Fitzsimmons, Dempsey, Frazier, Holyfield, A young Clay, Ezzard Charles, Jersey Joe Walcott, a young Tyson, Corbett, Tunney, P. Jackson, John L. Sullivan, Joe Choynski, Harry Wills, Sam LangFord, Joe Jeannette,.. are there any more to consider before I get down to the task of rating them all as if in their prime,.... I miss any obvious one's Barney ?????

Tommy Burns, if you really want to. Archie Moore. Floyd Patterson, Max Schmeling. Jack Dempsey.

[Barn]

Tommy Burns, if you really want to. Archie Moore. Floyd Patterson, Max Schmeling. Jack Dempsey.

Also when doing this we need to go by prime weight as Prime Holmes was about 220 but, he went all the way up to around 240.

Or we can do 3 categories
<200
200><230
230>