NFL/CFB 2021-2022 Master Thread

[BodyBagz]

He can’t get a head coaching opportunity while seemingly every mediocre white retread has no trouble doing so.

If the knock on Bieniemy is that it’s really Andy Reid calling all the plays in KC then becoming offensive coordinator in Washington is a good way to go out on his own and prove himself.

The race card.....
How do we knmow how the interviews went with POC trying out for HC jobs ?
Just because a person wants a job, they have to either have that resume or a game plan.
Maybe a MFer didn't have a game plan ?!?!?
Flopped during the Q and A segment ?
There have been enough non white HC's to see what % of them were/are ''successful''.

Successful can mean a winning reg season but failing in the postseason
Successful can mean only a title will do.
Maybe a team is in rebuild mode and a HC is given leeway.
Maybe there is internal strife and a HC will be fired regardless of said success.

Owners will most likely take the high road and not air out the dirt in public (not that anyone would believe them, right ?!? Owners, bad......).

If Eric does well in Wash, basically doing the same thing, how soon before he gets a HC gig ?
And if he fails ?!?!?

IMHO, dumb AF move.
We will see.

[BodyBagz]

Thank you, I will show you how Lamar is better, but first...

You forgot to put Derek Carr's playoff record.

You often mention Lamar Jackson only winning one game out of four in the playoffs, so I imagine playoff records are important to you.

What is Derek Carr's playoff record?

Your comparison better be epic, making me wait this long

[Comanche]

Your comparison better be epic, making me wait this long

Dude I have a life, didn't know you were waiting on me like this

There's so much and so little to say at the same time.

First things first, a few posts ago you told me not to use any "IFs" when comparing players remember that? And then that's the ONLY thing you did when you discussed Carr.

IF the organization was better.

IF his schedule was easier.

IF he had better skill players.

IF he didn't have as many coaches.

IF IF IF IF...

That only happens because you couldn't stand on any factual information.

Of course teams and organizations win games, but the QB is the one position that affects winning the most.

So far Carr, compared to Jackson of course, has objectively been a complete failure. One guy wins 73% of his games and is in the playoffs every year. The other guy wins 44% of his games and can't even manage to make his team mediocre.

Carr and Lamar don't play defense so let's just look at their offenses. We will look at the past 5 years even though it's unfair for Lamar since it's his first 5 years in the league and Carr is on year 9. (Actually it makes things even worse for Carr lol)

As a rookie, 24 PPG for 13th best in the league. Jackson takes over for Flacco during the season. Playoffs.

Carr in 2018 (4th season), 18 PPG for 28th, Carr passes for 4k yards but can't convert his yards into points. 4-12 record.


2nd year, 33 PPG for 1st in the league, MVP season. Leads the team in passing and rushing. (Leads the league in TD passes. Did Carr play that year? I don't know...) Playoffs.

Carr in 2019, 19 PPG for 24th best, another 4k season where Carr can't get in the end zone to save his life, despite having Josh Jacobs and Darren Waller helping him. Just embarrassing. 7-9 record.

3rd year, 29 PPG for 7th in the league. Again leads the team in passing and rushing. Playoffs.

Carr in 2020, 27 PPG for 10th, 4100 yards, much better but still has 8-8 record. I put that one squarely on the defense.

4th year, down to 22 PPG, 17th best only, leads the team in passing and rushing again, but injuries hurt his season. No playoffs.

Carr in 2021, 22 PPG for 18th place, Carr again with a big passing year but can convert any of it into TDs, has Renfrow, Waller and Jacobs as a supporting cast. They make the playoffs. Get bounced in the 1st game. (We'll come back to that).


5th year down to 20 PPG including all the games played without him, again injuries hurt his season. Somehow again still leads his team in passing and rushing. Playoffs but without him.

Carr in 2022, expectations are sky high. Top 3 receiver, top 3 RB, top 3 TE. A Super bowl winning, offensive minded coach. A competitive defense. So what happened? 23 PPG for 12th, 3.5k yards that mean nothing, multiple late game meltdowns, 6-11 record though not all of that is on him because the front office gives up on making him their QB1. They've had enough of a QB who always comes up short. After 9 seasons they know he's not the guy. They couldn't possibly surround him better then they did this year and it was STILL a failure.

Overall Carr can't process info quick enough to make tight window throws so the closer he gets to the end zone the harder it gets for him. He is not big game material. He needs to be uplifted by others around him instead of him uplifting others. He's got a good arm, throws a nice ball, can execute plays as long as the pocket is perfect and the drawn up play worked. Beyond that he's not that guy. In the NFL, the top QBs need to give you more then the scripted play, unless you play for the 49ers, because Kyle is on another level as far as getting his weapons open (something I told you about already in this thread).


Jackson's lows are comparable to Carr's highs. Carr has simply never made it to that level. MVP candidate year in year out level. When Jackson is on the field the Ravens expect to win, because that's all he's done. He hasn't had success in the playoffs YET, but he gets there every year. Carr's played 4 more years and has played in ONE playoff game to Jackson's FOUR. Again the comparison is embarrassing. Wherever Jackson signs it's gonna be for top QB money. Carr was never in consideration for one of those. Why do you think that is?

[BodyBagz]

Dude I have a life, didn't know you were waiting on me like this

There's so much and so little to say at the same time.

First things first, a few posts ago you told me not to use any "IFs" when comparing players remember that? And then that's the ONLY thing you did when you discussed Carr.

IF the organization was better.

IF his schedule was easier.

IF he had better skill players.

IF he didn't have as many coaches.

IF IF IF IF...

That only happens because you couldn't stand on any factual information.

Of course teams and organizations win games, but the QB is the one position that affects winning the most.

So far Carr, compared to Jackson of course, has objectively been a complete failure. One guy wins 73% of his games and is in the playoffs every year. The other guy wins 44% of his games and can't even manage to make his team mediocre.

Carr and Lamar don't play defense so let's just look at their offenses. We will look at the past 5 years even though it's unfair for Lamar since it's his first 5 years in the league and Carr is on year 9. (Actually it makes things even worse for Carr lol)

As a rookie, 24 PPG for 13th best in the league. Jackson takes over for Flacco during the season. Playoffs.

Carr in 2018 (4th season), 18 PPG for 28th, Carr passes for 4k yards but can't convert his yards into points. 4-12 record.


2nd year, 33 PPG for 1st in the league, MVP season. Leads the team in passing and rushing. (Leads the league in TD passes. Did Carr play that year? I don't know...) Playoffs.

Carr in 2019, 19 PPG for 24th best, another 4k season where Carr can't get in the end zone to save his life, despite having Josh Jacobs and Darren Waller helping him. Just embarrassing. 7-9 record.

3rd year, 29 PPG for 7th in the league. Again leads the team in passing and rushing. Playoffs.

Carr in 2020, 27 PPG for 10th, 4100 yards, much better but still has 8-8 record. I put that one squarely on the defense.

4th year, down to 22 PPG, 17th best only, leads the team in passing and rushing again, but injuries hurt his season. No playoffs.

Carr in 2021, 22 PPG for 18th place, Carr again with a big passing year but can convert any of it into TDs, has Renfrow, Waller and Jacobs as a supporting cast. They make the playoffs. Get bounced in the 1st game. (We'll come back to that).


5th year down to 20 PPG including all the games played without him, again injuries hurt his season. Somehow again still leads his team in passing and rushing. Playoffs but without him.

Carr in 2022, expectations are sky high. Top 3 receiver, top 3 RB, top 3 TE. A Super bowl winning, offensive minded coach. A competitive defense. So what happened? 23 PPG for 12th, 3.5k yards that mean nothing, multiple late game meltdowns, 6-11 record though not all of that is on him because the front office gives up on making him their QB1. They've had enough of a QB who always comes up short. After 9 seasons they know he's not the guy. They couldn't possibly surround him better then they did this year and it was STILL a failure.

Overall Carr can't process info quick enough to make tight window throws so the closer he gets to the end zone the harder it gets for him. He is not big game material. He needs to be uplifted by others around him instead of him uplifting others. He's got a good arm, throws a nice ball, can execute plays as long as the pocket is perfect and the drawn up play worked. Beyond that he's not that guy. In the NFL, the top QBs need to give you more then the scripted play, unless you play for the 49ers, because Kyle is on another level as far as getting his weapons open (something I told you about already in this thread).


Jackson's lows are comparable to Carr's highs. Carr has simply never made it to that level. MVP candidate year in year out level. When Jackson is on the field the Ravens expect to win, because that's all he's done. He hasn't had success in the playoffs YET, but he gets there every year. Carr's played 4 more years and has played in ONE playoff game to Jackson's FOUR. Again the comparison is embarrassing. Wherever Jackson signs it's gonna be for top QB money. Carr was never in consideration for one of those. Why do you think that is?

Bravo
Your reply did not completely disappoint
It's lovely to look at

Regarding me ''waiting''...it was as ''if'' you just disappeared after asking me to answer yet another question without you responding to me answering your 1st question.

I will 1st destroy your take on my ''IF's''

Sometimes, an if can lead to logical conclusions....

IF a boxer is the same height as his opponent, the outcome would be different
IF a MLB pitcher had a fastball that was 10 MPH faster, he'd have more strikeouts
IF an NFL QB played against terrible teams, his stats would be fancy

On and on...........

It's no wonder Lamar did much better when his team had one of the easiest schedules of a particular year.
The tougher the schedule, the less fancy Lamar was. The less successful him and his team was.
Flip it and Balt makes the postseason and he's an MVP (his stats AND HEALTH has steadily DECLINED since his MVP year...very mild uptics in some areas in 2022).

2019 66 comp %
2020 and 2021 64
2022 62

2019 36 tds
2020 26 tds
2021 16 tds
2022 17 tds

2019 3127 yds (his CAREER BEST)
2020 2757
2021 2882
2022 2242

2019 QBR 83
2020 67
2021 51
2022 59

2019 RTG 113
2020 99
2021 87
2022 91

Teams dare Lamar to throw the ball.
Has the worst long ball comp %
Makes up for it with dinking and dunking plays.

Lamar (Balt) vs a tough schedule -
2019 13-2 (20th on SOS)...makes playoffs and wins MVP
2020 11-4 (27th on SOS)...makes playoffs and wins his only playoff game.
So far, he's only missed 1 game in each of these soft seasons.
Unsure if injuries played a part.

2021 7-5 (2nd toughest SOS)...no playoffs. Missed 5 games due to injuries.

2022 8-4 (23rd on SOS)...makes playoffs. Misses 5 games again due to injuries. One and done.

So, in 3 of the 4 years, Lamar has enjoyed a very easy run.
All the while having a very stable coaching staff.
For him to be so young and miss 10 games in the last 2 years is not a good sign
How much are you willing to bet Balt is going to make him a pocket passer if they keep him ?
The very thing Lamar is terrible at. This will resemble Cam's career trajectory.
The less of a threat he is to run, the less successful he will be.
Is it any wonder a slow AF guy like Flacco didn't miss a game for 7 years
Same with Carr....only missed a game due to being benched.


Derek, on the other hand, had at least 4 different HC and just as many schemes.
Played on the worst field (half dirt for 8 games a year).
Between 2019 and 2022, he faced tougher SOSs (in 2019, went 7-9 vs the toughest SOS)

Balt will once again have an easy SOS (21st) in 2023
Odds are Balt (with or without Lamar) will make the playoffs.
LV (without Derek) will once again have a tougher SOS than Balt (10th)

Wherever Carr ends up, IF he plays, I assure you he will put better numbers in most PASSING categories.
I will give Lamar credit for taking care of the ball compared to Carr.
Then again, he's had a very easy career, SCHEDULE WISE, with no drama on his team.
Just health issues.
Only 26 and damaged (to what extent, we will find out).

Both have the same amount of GWDs between 2019-2022
Derek is a more accurate passer

Carr was ranked as a top 10 deep-threat passer in 2020 and 2021.
(Carr ranked 5th, Lamar 23rd in 2021)

QB1 completed 38.8% of his deep pass attempts – with 934 yards, seven touchdowns, and a 90.2 passer rating to account for it. Next Gen Stats gave him a 92 passing score on deep attempts and ranked him at No. 9 on the list – one slot ahead of 2021 NFL MVP Aaron Rodgers.
(Lamar didn't rank in 2020 and they were even in 2019..16th and 17th)


I feel I've shown that IF all things were equal (strengths of schedule and management stability), Carr would outperform Lamar in every PASSING category and would do better in the postseason. Easier path to the playoffs when you have a weak schedule.

Imagine for a second that Carr played under the same HC his entire career....

Yes, Lamar has 1 postseason win to 0 for Carr....let me break out the bubbly.

Carr would be on my team all day every day.
We will see IF Lamar lives up to his new contract.

Edit -
I'm not necessarily a Carr fan, but IF I had a choice between these 2, I'd go with Carr
Plenty of better QBs than Carr but Lamar is not one of them.

[Comanche]

Bravo
Your reply did not completely disappoint
It's lovely to look at

Regarding me ''waiting''...it was as ''if'' you just disappeared after asking me to answer yet another question without you responding to me answering your 1st question.

I will 1st destroy your take on my ''IF's''

Sometimes, an if can lead to logical conclusions....

IF a boxer is the same height as his opponent, the outcome would be different
IF a MLB pitcher had a fastball that was 10 MPH faster, he'd have more strikeouts
IF an NFL QB played against terrible teams, his stats would be fancy

On and on...........

It's no wonder Lamar did much better when his team had one of the easiest schedules of a particular year.
The tougher the schedule, the less fancy Lamar was. The less successful him and his team was.
Flip it and Balt makes the postseason and he's an MVP (his stats AND HEALTH has steadily DECLINED since his MVP year...very mild uptics in some areas in 2022).

2019 66 comp %
2020 and 2021 64
2022 62

2019 36 tds
2020 26 tds
2021 16 tds
2022 17 tds

2019 3127 yds (his CAREER BEST)
2020 2757
2021 2882
2022 2242

2019 QBR 83
2020 67
2021 51
2022 59

2019 RTG 113
2020 99
2021 87
2022 91

Teams dare Lamar to throw the ball.
Has the worst long ball comp %
Makes up for it with dinking and dunking plays.

Lamar (Balt) vs a tough schedule -
2019 13-2 (20th on SOS)...makes playoffs and wins MVP
2020 11-4 (27th on SOS)...makes playoffs and wins his only playoff game.
So far, he's only missed 1 game in each of these soft seasons.
Unsure if injuries played a part.

2021 7-5 (2nd toughest SOS)...no playoffs. Missed 5 games due to injuries.

2022 8-4 (23rd on SOS)...makes playoffs. Misses 5 games again due to injuries. One and done.

So, in 3 of the 4 years, Lamar has enjoyed a very easy run.
All the while having a very stable coaching staff.
For him to be so young and miss 10 games in the last 2 years is not a good sign
How much are you willing to bet Balt is going to make him a pocket passer if they keep him ?
The very thing Lamar is terrible at. This will resemble Cam's career trajectory.
The less of a threat he is to run, the less successful he will be.
Is it any wonder a slow AF guy like Flacco didn't miss a game for 7 years
Same with Carr....only missed a game due to being benched.


Derek, on the other hand, had at least 4 different HC and just as many schemes.
Played on the worst field (half dirt for 8 games a year).
Between 2019 and 2022, he faced tougher SOSs (in 2019, went 7-9 vs the toughest SOS)

Balt will once again have an easy SOS (21st) in 2023
Odds are Balt (with or without Lamar) will make the playoffs.
LV (without Derek) will once again have a tougher SOS than Balt (10th)

Wherever Carr ends up, IF he plays, I assure you he will put better numbers in most PASSING categories.
I will give Lamar credit for taking care of the ball compared to Carr.
Then again, he's had a very easy career, SCHEDULE WISE, with no drama on his team.
Just health issues.
Only 26 and damaged (to what extent, we will find out).

Both have the same amount of GWDs between 2019-2022
Derek is a more accurate passer

Carr was ranked as a top 10 deep-threat passer in 2020 and 2021.
(Carr ranked 5th, Lamar 23rd in 2021)

QB1 completed 38.8% of his deep pass attempts – with 934 yards, seven touchdowns, and a 90.2 passer rating to account for it. Next Gen Stats gave him a 92 passing score on deep attempts and ranked him at No. 9 on the list – one slot ahead of 2021 NFL MVP Aaron Rodgers.
(Lamar didn't rank in 2020 and they were even in 2019..16th and 17th)


I feel I've shown that IF all things were equal (strengths of schedule and management stability), Carr would outperform Lamar in every PASSING category and would do better in the postseason. Easier path to the playoffs when you have a weak schedule.

Imagine for a second that Carr played under the same HC his entire career....

Yes, Lamar has 1 postseason win to 0 for Carr....let me break out the bubbly.

Carr would be on my team all day every day.
We will see IF Lamar lives up to his new contract.

Edit -
I'm not necessarily a Carr fan, but IF I had a choice between these 2, I'd go with Carr
Plenty of better QBs than Carr but Lamar is not one of them.

For the record I am not a Carr hater.

I don't think the guy can't win. It's just that he won't be the primary reason why you win. He's never been.

Of course he is a better passer then Lamar. On every level. I also prefer pocket passers to dual threat QBs. That does not mean that every pocket passer is better then every dual threat QB.

You have to start looking at more then passing yards to understand how well the QB is playing. For all of his passing yards, why do you think his teams didn't score more points?

I completely disagree that Carr's problem has been the strength of schedule. That doesn't take into account how much talent he has on his own team. With the talent he's had there is no reason why they shouldn't be 2nd in the division every year, and therefore in the wildcard hunt.

This year he had everything a QB could ask for. It was a make or break season. That's why they let him go. I think we can at least agree that Carr's underperformed offensively considering the talent on offense.

Lamar Jackson is an injury risk. Obviously can't deny that. But when healthy he changes the game. They need to protect him more and give him more weapons. The fact that the threat of the run is there means that defenses have to play them a certain way. That's why he will always have receivers in single coverage. Exactly like what you saw from Hurts this year. Playing 11 vs 11 is an immense stress on the defense. Good coaching will take that very far.

[BodyBagz]

For the record I am not a Carr hater.

I don't think the guy can't win. It's just that he won't be the primary reason why you win. He's never been.

Of course he is a better passer then Lamar. On every level. I also prefer pocket passers to dual threat QBs. That does not mean that every pocket passer is better then every dual threat QB.

You have to start looking at more then passing yards to understand how well the QB is playing. For all of his passing yards, why do you think his teams didn't score more points?

I completely disagree that Carr's problem has been the strength of schedule. That doesn't take into account how much talent he has on his own team. With the talent he's had there is no reason why they shouldn't be 2nd in the division every year, and therefore in the wildcard hunt.

This year he had everything a QB could ask for. It was a make or break season. That's why they let him go. I think we can at least agree that Carr's underperformed offensively considering the talent on offense.

Lamar Jackson is an injury risk. Obviously can't deny that. But when healthy he changes the game. They need to protect him more and give him more weapons. The fact that the threat of the run is there means that defenses have to play them a certain way. That's why he will always have receivers in single coverage. Exactly like what you saw from Hurts this year. Playing 11 vs 11 is an immense stress on the defense. Good coaching will take that very far.

For all of the hype
For every negative thing about Carr a person can name
He is the better QB.

Teams win/lose and it depends on the schedule.
When they both had tough schedules, they failed to make the postseason
When they had weak scehdules, they made it
Their stats reflect on their schedules
Carr had a tougher time than Lamar did in Lamar's last 4 years.
Lamar only had 1 tough schedule to deal with and again, no internal strife.

So much hype and only 1 postseason win to show for it.
Yeah, that's worth a blank check

[Comanche]

For all of the hype
For every negative thing about Carr a person can name
He is the better QB.

Teams win/lose and it depends on the schedule.
When they both had tough schedules, they failed to make the postseason
When they had weak scehdules, they made it
Their stats reflect on their schedules
Carr had a tougher time than Lamar did in Lamar's last 4 years.
Lamar only had 1 tough schedule to deal with and again, no internal strife.

So much hype and only 1 postseason win to show for it.
Yeah, that's worth a blank check

Carr is so much better that he got sent packing by his team during the season.

9 years wasn't enough to win a single playoff game with this guy.

And you still missed the point.

The blank check is because QBs are too hard to find.

You could only find ONE guy who you think is better and could replace him.

[BodyBagz]

Carr is so much better that he got sent packing by his team during the season.

9 years wasn't enough to win a single playoff game with this guy.

And you still missed the point.

The blank check is because QBs are too hard to find.

You could only find ONE guy who you think is better and could replace him.

For the umpteenth time, teams win/lose
QB's don't play defense or create their system.

I picked Carr at random

Burrow is better
Allen is better
Hurts is better
Watson is better
Kyler is better
Herbert has a better future
D Jones is a better passer

Lamar will end up being a disappointment.

[BodyBagz]

Balt rightfully has reservations or they would have signed Lamar by now.

He may still get a ridiculous contract, though, but the seeds of doubt have been planted.

[Comanche]

For the umpteenth time, teams win/lose
QB's don't play defense or create their system.

I picked Carr at random

Burrow is better
Allen is better
Hurts is better
Watson is better
Kyler is better
Herbert has a better future
D Jones is a better passer

Lamar will end up being a disappointment.

None of these guys are available for Baltimore to sign.

We are talking about replacing Jackson with a better QB.

Bro it's like the conversation is going over your head.