Why Teddy Atlas Is Right

[satiev1]

Lomochenko for losing to a journeyman is number 1 but ggg who's barely lost rds is not on p4p list. Atlas you coon.

[Combat Talk Radio]

GGG is a top 5 p4p fighter. Clearly.

The very term "Pound 4 Pound" assumes multiple weight classes. Upward. Facing quality competition in each. Upward.

Until he goes UP and faces more threats, he can't possibly be.

[Eff Pandas]

I'm constantly amazed hardcore fans care so much about P4P childlike fantasy sci-fi bs.

Its one of my pet peeves & embarrassments with boxing fans that so many invest time & thought into such a silly concept as who'd be the best if everyone was the same size loool.

[The Big Dunn]

When Atlas uses the same ******ed logic as most of the worst ex manny/current ggg fans have for years regarding opponents of fighters they don't like, these clowns have an absolute meltdown.

If you guys never had a problem employing this ******ed logic when you were taking shots at Floyd, ward etc., don't whine like f@gs when it's used against a guy you like.

In fact, the only logic we should ever use when discussing ggg is that of his uber sh-tty ****sucking fans.

[original zero]

I'm constantly amazed hardcore fans care so much about P4P childlike fantasy sci-fi bs.

Its one of my pet peeves & embarrassments with boxing fans that so many invest time & thought into such a silly concept as who'd be the best if everyone was the same size loool.

i agree 100%, but the same logic should be applied to weight classes in general.

having weight classes at all is childlike fantasy sci-fi bs.

who cares about who the 840th best fighter in the world is just because he's the best fighter who can drain the water out of his body and weigh in at a certain weight?

the best fighters in the world are the heavyweights, period. any other division is the equivalent of the WNBA or the little league world series.

[Chrismart]

This is a classic lasagne recipe which has been perfected over the years. For the best results leave the lasagne to stand for six hours before cooking.

For the ragu

2 tbsp olive oil
900g/2lb minced beef
2 onions, roughly chopped
4 sticks celery, diced (optional)
2 garlic cloves, crushed
2 level tbsp plain flour
150ml/¼ pint beef stock
1 tbsp redcurrant jelly (optional) or 1 tsp sugar
3 tbsp tomato purée
1 tbsp chopped thyme
2 x 400g/14oz can chopped tomatoes

For the white sauce

50g/2oz butter
50g/2oz plain flour
750ml/1¼ pints hot milk
2 tsp Dijon mustard
50g/2oz parmesan cheese, grated
salt and pepper

For the lasagne

10-12 sheets lasagne
75g/3oz mature cheddar cheese, grated


Method

1. Preheat the oven to160C/325F/Gas 3.

2. For the ragu, heat a large frying pan until hot and add the oil. Cook the mince until browned all over. Remove from the heat and transfer to a plate. Add the onion, celery (if using) and garlic to the pan and cook until softened. Return the meat to the pan and stir in the flour. Add the stock and bring to the boil. Add the redcurrant jelly (or sugar), tomato purée and thyme, then stir well.

3. Stir in the canned tomatoes. Bring to the boil again, cover and simmer in the oven for 1-½ hours, or until the beef is tender.

4. For the white sauce, melt the butter in a saucepan. Add the flour and cook over the heat for one minute. Gradually whisk in the hot milk, whisking until thickened. Add the Dijon mustard and parmesan cheese and season well with salt and pepper.

5. For the lasagne, put one third of the meat sauce in the base of a 2.3 litre/4 pint shallow ovenproof dish. Spoon one third of the white sauce on top. Arrange one layer of lasagne sheets on top. Season. Spoon half of the remaining meat sauce on top and then half of the white sauce. Put another layer of lasagne sheets on top, then the remaining meat sauce and remaining white sauce. Sprinkle over the cheddar cheese.

6. Leave for six hours before cooking so that the pasta can start to soften.

7. Preheat the oven temperature to 200C/400F/Gas 6.

8. Cook in the middle of the oven for about 45 minutes- or until golden brown on top, bubbling around the edges and the pasta is soft.

[BoxingIsGreat]

I know folks were crying foul for Lil g being left off of Atlas's top 10 P4P list.

I hate to say it, but Teddy may have actually been too kind in mentioning Golovkin was 11.

The truth is, we don't know.

And because we don't know it IS OK to speculate that he doesn't belong at all.

We can't even speculate based on how his competition has gone on to do against other elite or near elite guys.

We don't know THAT either.

We don't know because Golovkin's best wins were against good, but not great, competition.

And, we don't know because even counting those wins is difficult because of the prior and subsequent history of those opponents.

What do I mean?

For an example (as a control) let's cite a recent P4P great, Pacquiao, using an elite opponent- Miguel Cotto.

I am the first guy to argue that Pac's victory over Cotto has a few asterisks- the weight drain, the fact that Cotto was probably still slightly damaged goods from the cement beating...

But, a look at Cotto's record after the fight with Manny makes Manny's victory a very solid argument for Pac. It was after Pac destroyed Miguel that Cotto gave Mayweather arguably the toughest fight of Floyd's career. It was after Pac's win that Cotto destroyed Maravilla (albeit a hobbled Sergio). And it was after Pac's win that Cotto suffered a very close and competitive loss to Alvarez, another acknowledged P4P guy.

You look at other Pacquiao wins and you see largely the same thing: JMM has some of his biggest wins after Pac losses. Bradley beats JMM and Provo after his first fight with Pac, then Chavez and Rios after the second one. Even Algieri- who I thought was a nobody- proves he belonged in a closely contested loss to Khan after his fight with Pac.

Now lets look at Lil g's best wins-Murray, Geale, and Lemieux

Not one of those 3 has beaten an elite or even near elite fighter since they fought Lil g. Murray has probably had the most success, but has come up short against an ancient Arthur Abraham and an inconsistent George Groves. Lemieux has yet to even try and test himself against another elite or near elite and will not be doing so his next fight with Curtis Stevens either. And Geale went on to get KTFO by an undersized Cotto (who was more dominant in his win against Geale than Golovkin was in his win) and then follow THAT up by getting KTFO by a guy with 11 fights.

That's exactly why you CAN leave Lil g off a top 10 P4P list.

He has not fought elite competition and the top guys he HAS fought have not proved to be very good post match either.

Yeah, the eye test says he might be top 5 or even 3 or even more.

But, he has to fight someone.

He is 11 years in, over 6 of those with a belt and Jacobs (who one can argue has also done it a little with smoke and mirrors) is THE BEST GUY he has ever faced- yet it is also questionable if Jacobs is truly elite.

So, we will see.

An impressive victory over Danny should help him crack the top 10 IMO.

But for some, even that will not be enough.

I'm in this group. Unless he fights and beats Ward at 175.

[bluepete]

I agree with maybe the #4 thing, but i don't know who's "clearly" better than thurman at 147.

I meant it as in Thurman is not clearly the best at his weight, as in its debatable. Not that Thurman is clearly not the best as in its out of the question.

[bluepete]

The very term "Pound 4 Pound" assumes multiple weight classes. Upward. Facing quality competition in each. Upward.

Until he goes UP and faces more threats, he can't possibly be.

I don't know about that. Isn't it more the idea that someone is so skilled or powerful that theoretically they could beat any fighter with all things being equal size wise? I'll grant you it might be hard to say in a thin division, but wouldn't a dominant champion who devastates a good division, say a Ray Leonard back at welter be in with a shot even if he remains at the weight?

[koolkc107]

But Atlas had him in the past in his top10...

He just said that he left him out because of his recent performance against Brook. (A performance we all know was on purpose after almost ending the fight in the first round, something he didn't want to do).

So, all your words are bull shiet. Kisses.

My words are consistent.

Lil g has never been on my P4P list because IMO you MUST beat elite competition to get on it.

And everyone else on my top 10 -including Spence- has tested themselves against better guys than Golovkin has.

I am not saying he isn't one of the best fighters in the world.

I am saying he has yet to prove that against the proper opponent(s).