Dempsey must be a star!

[The Old LefHook]

The public never completely lost Dempsey mania. Seventy years layer it was Tyson mania. Only great KO artists create mania, and only a few of those... Duran, Hafey, Wilde...

[travestyny]

- -U still unable to fathom the lucrative baseball and show biz connection to boxing that then couldn't fight it's way out o the wet paper bag U reside in with U glue.

You still can't admit that Dempsey himself said he wasn't going anywhere near Wills in 1920


Dumbo.

[QueensburyRules]

You still can't admit that Dempsey himself said he wasn't going anywhere near Wills in 1920


Dumbo.

- -U making up quotes like U use to make up mud pattycakes ain't cuttin' it.

[Willie Pep 229]

[Rusty Tromboni]

Those victories were your inanities, how would I know Hillary Clinton? That is what the Clinton's do when they get caught, accuse the other of the very thing they did...

I guess half the inane garbage you spew you forget, mercifully... Sure wish I could forget. Sorry, trombone you get called on your BS... In this section at least. But thanks for the RD Lang write up... As I am sure if I was schizo I would be the type to smear away.

Dude, I am sorry if I am too rough on you. And if you really do have some mental issues, I don't want to pick on you. I really don't think it's right to make fun of people for stuff they can't actually help. But you can control how you RESPOND to it. Some of your crazy ranting might just be you talking out of your ass, some might be caused by a disorder. But I can't know if you don't tell me.

You aren't a bad guy, but sometimes you make crazy claims and then erupt when confronted. Wlad, Vitali, Wilder, Joshua, Wallin, Fury... these guys are monsters. They're either very skilled or very dangerous - some both. We saw what happened when Patterson, Quarry and Foster moved up to fight Frazier and Ali... what caveat to the Laws of Physics ensures 70's Era Heavyweights don't suffer the same fate?

If that's not enough, look at how guys like Cooney, or even Lyle and Wepner, could get themselves into tittle fights just by being big and dangerous. The same applied then, but doesn't apply now - when it's even more con****uous, and fighters get more individualized attention!?!?!?

Seriously, you really come across as crazy at times. I don't mean to hurt your feelings. But i am not going to betray the truth just because someone is overly sensitive. Ithink I made that clear the day I arrived.

[HOUDINI563]

Such rambling.

Wepner was never considered a good fighter and he was not dangerous. He was “an opponent”. All through the decades heavyweight champions fight “an opponent” in between bouts with the top contenders.

Lyle - Everyone knew he could hit. No one called him a great fighter. No one ever said he would beat Joe Louis. That the **** you write every day here about non talents like Wilder who simply does not know how to fight.

Cooney came through the amateurs NY Golden Gloves etc. He was a dangerous opponent. No one said he would beat Ali or Louis.

If you would simply state no talents like Wilder are dangerous no one would put you in your place. Wilder IS dangerous but that’s it. He cannot be compared with proven fighters who really knew how to fight.

[travestyny]

Here's a bit more.

So Queenie claims the offer was in March and Dempsey doesn't talk of erasing the color line until July.

I get what happened. So it was at this time that he began saying that he will fight Wills if the public wants it, but began claiming the public didn't want it.

Look at both statements (yours and the one here). In both, he is saying that he wants Fulton over Wills. So much for Dempsey claiming that Wills was the only man he ever wanted to fight since becoming champion. He had Miske scheduled already by the time Wills beat Fulton, so what of him fighting the winner? Had Brennan next, and in your statement he was saying Brennan would be first. When was he going to get around to Wills?


Then comes the reversal as well in '21. Same excuse (the public doesn't want it) but himself saying he has drawn the color line....again.

The public was wanting this fight since at least 1922, and probably even before that.

He was never going to fight Harry Wills, as he stated outright in the above statement. Probably the only thing the man didn't lie about regarding this issue.


I think what we really need to find out is if Dempsey was correct that the public didn't want him to take this fight. What do you think? From everything I've read and heard, the public very much did want this fight.

Rickard seems to think there was public demand for this fight since Dempsey became champ.

[Willie Pep 229]

Here's a bit more.

So Queenie claims the offer was in March and Dempsey doesn't talk of erasing the color line until July.

I get what happened. So it was at this time that he began saying that he will fight Wills if the public wants it, but began claiming the public didn't want it.

Look at both statements (yours and the one here). In both, he is saying that he wants Fulton over Wills. So much for Dempsey claiming that Wills was the only man he ever wanted to fight since becoming champion. He had Miske scheduled already by the time Wills beat Fulton, so what of him fighting the winner? Had Brennan next, and in your statement he was saying Brennan would be first. When was he going to get around to Wills?


Then comes the reversal as well in '21. Same excuse (the public doesn't want it) but himself saying he has drawn the color line....again.

The public was wanting this fight since at least 1922, and probably even before that.

He was never going to fight Harry Wills, as he stated outright in the above statement. Probably the only thing the man didn't lie about regarding this issue.


I think what we really need to find out is if Dempsey was correct that the public didn't want him to take this fight. What do you think? From everything I've read and heard, the public very much did want this fight.

Rickard seems to think there was public demand for this fight since Dempsey became champ.

T --- Yes all this is true -- yet here's Dempsey contradicting himself yet again.

My point is that Dempsey flip-flopped back and forth on the color line issue, depending on who was doing the asking, and when/where it was being asked.

Usually when a reporter would catch Dempsey alone he would make one set of noise ("no color line") then later his people (Kearns) would rein him back in and he would officially retract the statement.

This happens several time between 1920-1926.

This post is from 1921.

[travestyny]

T --- Yes all this is true -- yet here's Dempsey contradicting himself yet again.

My point is that Dempsey flip-flopped back and forth on the color line issue, depending on who was doing the asking, and when/where it was being asked.

Usually when a reporter would catch Dempsey alone he would make one set of noise ("no color line") then later his people (Kearns) would rein him back in and he would officially retract the statement.

This happens several time between 1920-1926.

This post is from 1921.

It's almost as if Harry Wills didn't exist. I get exhausted just reading this stuff. Imagine how Harry Wills felt.

If the blame is to be placed on Kearns, Dempsey is complicit as far as I'm concerned. To keep claiming the public didn't want it (while everyone around him is claiming the public wants) seemed to be his manufactured out.

[Rusty Tromboni]

Such rambling.

Wepner was never considered a good fighter and he was not dangerous. He was �an opponent? All through the decades heavyweight champions fight �an opponent?in between bouts with the top contenders.

Lyle - Everyone knew he could hit. No one called him a great fighter. No one ever said he would beat Joe Louis. That the **** you write every day here about non talents like Wilder who simply does not know how to fight.

Oh, how about that! So the records of these vaunted legends are built upon subpar opposition!

Neither of those guys would be made favorites over Ortiz, Spilka and Breazeale.


You must be two feet tall because the whole point of my post went completely over your head.

Such
Cooney came through the amateurs NY Golden Gloves etc. He was a dangerous opponent. No one said he would beat Ali or Louis.

Cooney would **** Louis.

Ali chose not to fight Cooney, so that should tell you his feelings on the subject.


Cooney hit harder than Cooper, Frazier and Norton.


He went to the body effectively and didn't punch himself out like Foreman. He didn't have a great jab, but he didn't let himself get out-jabbed like Foreman did in his pitiful response to Ali in the center of the ring.

I do believe that Ali, though only at his absolute best, beats COoney. He probably makes Cooney look really foolish for long stretches. But he takes a beating to get his hand raised. Cooney would definitely go down as his most defining win.

Still, he wasn't very skilled. He showed a lot of promise, and progressed a long natural lines, but he didn't really commit himself any more than he had to.

If you would simply state no talents like Wilder are dangerous no one would put you in your place. Wilder IS dangerous but that�s it. He cannot be compared with proven fighters who really knew how to fight.

This conversation AGAIN!? Ever since Sullivan, the argument has been made that Heavyweights are just big and dangerous, and unskilled compared to their smaller counter-parts. Every generation of Heavyweight is less skilled than the one preceeding it.

There's truth to it, but it mostly doesn't matter.


Let's keep with the Cooney comparison:


Wilder isn't that much worse than Cooney in terms of skill. His bigger, harder hitting, and stronger, though. He actually keeps his sh.it together outside the ring. He genuinely seems to want to be a fighter.

Cooney isn't as weak as he's made out to have been - he usually only went out on his feet. But Wilder took a wicked beating against Fury that few would have ever survived. So even in terms of handling things when they don't go his way, Wilder seems to do just fine. His last minute Hail Mary against fury was really impressive by the standards of any Heavyweight championship fight.

Just to really drive the point home, since you need the extra help: Usyk is insanely skilled and about the same size as MOST Heavyweight champions to precede him. And yet he hid out at Cruiserweight for the first several years of his career, and still has yet to fight Wilder.

Why?