Felix Trinidad vs Oscar De La Hoya 2

[Eff Pandas]

If my memory serves...

Felix would always demand a rematch.
Bur Oscar was scared. Thats why it never happened.

The "homeboy" would have put the cross dresser to sleep in a rematch and he knew it.

D- trolling.

Oscar is a lot of things. Scared to fight a guy most people thought he beat in a rematch isn't one of them (in fairness I legit thought Tito won & deserved to win unlike the majority).

[Hawkins]

I know at one point both sides had come together to begin negotiations. The big points of contention at the time were the purse split with Trinidad wanting the bigger end for being the winner of the first fight as well as the fight being contested at the Super Welterweight limit. I believe Arum and Co. kept stalling so Don King went ahead and scheduled the Trinidad - David Reid fight.

From what I remember Don King even postponed the Reid fight because he believed that they were close to terms on a rematch with De La Hoya. Obviously it never happened. Furthermore there was some kind of issue with Dan Goosen and Derrell Coley, apparently Coley was next in line for a shot at Trinidad.

A lot of it was confusing. Trinidad was supposed to fight Corley however he wound up fighting Oscar and Trinidad fought Reid with the rematch dependant upon each one winning. I think at one point Dan Goosen even went to court to try and block HBO from broadcasting the David Reid fight. I'm not sure of the reasoning because I can't remember but it always seemed odd because Reid was a Goosen represented fighter.

[JK1700]

Thanks for a lot of good replies everybody. The general consensus seems to be that with the first fight ending how it did, neither promoter/fighter was willing to budge on negotiations. Plus neither guy really lost much in the first fight (People thought Tito lost but officially he won, Oscar lost officially but a lot of people thought he should've won) so it actually made a lot of sense for both guys not to fight again.

[Hawkins]

Thanks for a lot of good replies everybody. The general consensus seems to be that with the first fight ending how it did, neither promoter/fighter was willing to budge on negotiations. Plus neither guy really lost much in the first fight (People thought Tito lost but officially he won, Oscar lost officially but a lot of people thought he should've won) so it actually made a lot of sense for both guys not to fight again.

Kind of puts the mindset of many of the modern into perspective compare to the ones that came before. How many fighters from previous eras would have wanted a rematch to prove they could defeat the other guy? Now it's all about protecting your 'brand', and all that ridiculousness, as well as the modern importance of keeping your zero.

[JK1700]

Kind of puts the mindset of many of the modern into perspective compare to the ones that came before. How many fighters from previous eras would have wanted a rematch to prove they could defeat the other guy? Now it's all about protecting your 'brand', and all that ridiculousness, as well as the modern importance of keeping your zero.

I agree, but it's also more to do with the promoters than a lot of people think. Oscar and Tito fought who The Bobfather and Don King wanted them to fight. If it was up to both of them they probably would've fought again but I think their promoters wanted to go in different directions. So sometimes promoters controlling the fighters more is good, and sometimes it's not. I do like that they aren't getting taken advantage of as much, but at the same time I would like to see better match ups. I think the networks need to put their foot down here and stop accepting mis-matches. They're really not bothered though, they just want "entertainment".

Even in the Four King era we had elements of these kind of things. For example Ray deciding that he didn't want to fight Hagler and retire instead, then come back once he thought he was declining badly. I'm a huge fan of Ray, but guys have been picking their fights for a long time. Do I agree with it? Not always, but if I was a fighter i'd rather do it than have say Bob "I Have No Soul" Arum do it for me

Just for the record I think Oscar wins a UD in a rematch. Tito's style just didn't work well against him, he must regret wasting those last 3 rounds so much.

[Hawkins]

I agree, but it's also more to do with the promoters than a lot of people think. Oscar and Tito fought who The Bobfather and Don King wanted them to fight. If it was up to both of them they probably would've fought again but I think their promoters wanted to go in different directions. So sometimes promoters controlling the fighters more is good, and sometimes it's not. I do like that they aren't getting taken advantage of as much, but at the same time I would like to see better match ups. I think the networks need to put their foot down here and stop accepting mis-matches. They're really not bothered though, they just want "entertainment".

I agree. Truth be told I'm sure it's the promoters, agents and various other lecherous individuals that push for the things I mentioned. However, it's not too surprising given the 'Everyone wins, no one loses', politically correct atmosphere that saturates our society nowadays.

I can't stand Don King but he did give us great cards stacked with awesome matchups and title fights but that's due more to his love of money and disdain for fighters. Hell, he routinely had both champion and challenger under contract so he always came out on the winning side.

Even in the Four King era we had elements of these kind of things. For example Ray deciding that he didn't want to fight Hagler and retire instead, then come back once he thought he was declining badly. I'm a huge fan of Ray, but guys have been picking their fights for a long time. Do I agree with it? Not always, but if I was a fighter i'd rather do it than have say Bob "I Have No Soul" Arum do it for me

Just for the record I think Oscar wins a UD in a rematch. Tito's style just didn't work well against him, he must regret wasting those last 3 rounds so much.

No doubt, I always loved Ray Leonard but the way he handled the Hagler fight I didn't care for. Granted, it was genius on his part because it got him the win but I do think that example is vastly different from most of the things going on today. It may seem the same on the surface but underneath I believe they are completely different.

I agree. I always figured Oscar would win if the rematch had ever taken place.

[JK1700]

I agree. Truth be told I'm sure it's the promoters, agents and various other lecherous individuals that push for the things I mentioned. However, it's not too surprising given the 'Everyone wins, no one loses', politically correct atmosphere that saturates our society nowadays.

I can't stand Don King but he did give us great cards stacked with awesome matchups and title fights but that's due more to his love of money and disdain for fighters. Hell, he routinely had both champion and challenger under contract so he always came out on the winning side.



No doubt, I always loved Ray Leonard but the way he handled the Hagler fight I didn't care for. Granted, it was genius on his part because it got him the win but I do think that example is vastly different from most of the things going on today. It may seem the same on the surface but underneath I believe they are completely different.

I agree. I always figured Oscar would win if the rematch had ever taken place.

Totally agree. It's gone from 1 extreme to the next in a lot of cases. Guys can fight nobodies in this sport and still earn a million easily, it's not right but it's really down to the networks. I blame Bob Arum a lot for screwing up this last era, you're right about King he did have a ton of fighters back in the day and made some stacked cards. He was willing to do co-promotions when it came to big fights though. Bob was like "Screw everyone, my big names are only fighting each other". King was good to some guys (Chavez, Ricardo Lopez) but Bob's just a savage, at this point he's even screwing over Pacquiao after saying he is the greatest fighter ever just a few years ago, now he won't even say a good word about him They're both scumbags but I gotta vote The Bobfather as the worst of the two.

I agree about Leonard. I get it that he didn't want to fight Hagler around the Kevin Howard fight because in his book he basically said he just didn't think he had it anymore. However it just gave the wrong impression for him to come out and be like "Oh he's not the same guy anymore, now I want to fight him" Plus the way he performed in the fight, I agree when Hagler says he didn't fight him like a champion. All that posturing/taunting didn't endear anyone to him, to this day I still think Hagler deserved to win the fight and Hagler is my 2nd favorite fighter of all time. I just thought the powers that be and more people in the sport wanted Ray to win, but despite all that it was great to see two of the best ever to enter a ring go at it, past prime or not. I can watch it over and over again

[Hawkins]

Totally agree. It's gone from 1 extreme to the next in a lot of cases. Guys can fight nobodies in this sport and still earn a million easily, it's not right but it's really down to the networks. I blame Bob Arum a lot for screwing up this last era, you're right about King he did have a ton of fighters back in the day and made some stacked cards. He was willing to do co-promotions when it came to big fights though. Bob was like "Screw everyone, my big names are only fighting each other". King was good to some guys (Chavez, Ricardo Lopez) but Bob's just a savage, at this point he's even screwing over Pacquiao after saying he is the greatest fighter ever just a few years ago, now he won't even say a good word about him They're both scumbags but I gotta vote The Bobfather as the worst of the two.

I agree about Leonard. I get it that he didn't want to fight Hagler around the Kevin Howard fight because in his book he basically said he just didn't think he had it anymore. However it just gave the wrong impression for him to come out and be like "Oh he's not the same guy anymore, now I want to fight him" Plus the way he performed in the fight, I agree when Hagler says he didn't fight him like a champion. All that posturing/taunting didn't endear anyone to him, to this day I still think Hagler deserved to win the fight and Hagler is my 2nd favorite fighter of all time. I just thought the powers that be and more people in the sport wanted Ray to win, but despite all that it was great to see two of the best ever to enter a ring go at it, past prime or not. I can watch it over and over again

Arum has always been a snake in the grass. Hagler finally received a title shot because someone called in some political favors and Arum was threatened with a Congressional investigation into his business affairs by Tip O'Neill and Ted Kennedy. He buckled pretty quickly to the pressure.

As for the Four Kings go, I loved all of those dudes. Hagler/Hearns was the first fight I ever watched live on closed circuit television. I also got to see Hagler/Mugabi and Hagler/Leonard in the same format. Marvelous has always been one of my favorites, McCallum takes the top spot for me though. Regardless, it's a shame there isn't a group of guys like that in this current era of boxing.

[Anthony342]

That's why I don't consider Leonard beating Hagler that great a win. Pretty good, yes, but not great because of the extra time he waited. 1984-85 was the best time for the fight to happen, after the Howard fight, instead of that insulting retirement announcement in the boxing ring when Hagler and Hearns were in attendance.

As for De La Hoya, he should've chased the hell out of a rematch with Trinidad at any weight to really show he was the better fighter and avenge his first professional loss.

[JK1700]

Arum has always been a snake in the grass. Hagler finally received a title shot because someone called in some political favors and Arum was threatened with a Congressional investigation into his business affairs by Tip O'Neill and Ted Kennedy. He buckled pretty quickly to the pressure.

As for the Four Kings go, I loved all of those dudes. Hagler/Hearns was the first fight I ever watched live on closed circuit television. I also got to see Hagler/Mugabi and Hagler/Leonard in the same format. Marvelous has always been one of my favorites, McCallum takes the top spot for me though. Regardless, it's a shame there isn't a group of guys like that in this current era of boxing.

LOL I forgot about Arum being investigated for Hagler not getting a title shot. He's been looked into for corruption more than once He's the GOAT boxing crook.

My favorites out of the four are Hagler/Ray/Hearns/Duran but I enjoyed watching all of them. I've read a few books and seen lots of documentaries/fights about Marvin and Ray. Hagler-Mugabi is one of my favorite fights ever, the definition of "War". No wonder "The Beast" was never the same after that. McCallum is a legend and was a beautiful fighter to watch. I thought he beat Toney in 2 of their 3 fights and his 2 fights with Kalambay were also great technical battles. I'm sure there will be another great era of boxing coming, the problem is we have too many promoters and too many belts and just too many agendas in general.

That's why I don't consider Leonard beating Hagler that great a win. Pretty good, yes, but not great because of the extra time he waited. 1984-85 was the best time for the fight to happen, after the Howard fight, instead of that insulting retirement announcement in the boxing ring when Hagler and Hearns were in attendance.

As for De La Hoya, he should've chased the hell out of a rematch with Trinidad at any weight to really show he was the better fighter and avenge his first professional loss.

I mean, it's a great win just because it's Hagler and he beat everyone he ever faced except Ray (I had Hagler winning, but officially he lost). I agree with you but after reading Ray's book it's clear he just didn't think he had it any more at that point. Then I think it got to the point where he thought Hagler was declining but he also always wanted to be considered the best of that era and he knew he needed that fight to do it. Plus he was really unhappy when he wasn't fighting so he took the chance and came back. It wasn't really him not fighting him at that point that was the problem though, since he didn't want to fight at all. It was the way he did it. He made it seem to everyone that he didn't want the fight at that point. I consider it a great win mainly just due to the time off and everything, but he should have gave Marvin a rematch. He gave Hearns one and Duran a 3rd fight.

Oscar should've wanted that rematch just to erase the demons of it all. I never give him any grief for it because I think he should've won, but it must really eat away at him that he let his greatest victory slip away when it was in his grasp.