Why did Marcianos punches hurt the arms so much?

[Ray Corso]

Go away Larry when the adults are talking................GO!!

[Mr.MojoRisin']

I think you'll be refereed to as "stooge Larry" you seem to be late for everything!

Where did you attain ALL of your knowledge of boxing?
was it from your UNCLE?
was it from your Daddy?
maybe Wlads sparring mate?
maybe your heavy bag schooled you...


I learned mine from owning a boxing a gym, training fighters, being active
on the state regional & national level. Being a state boxing chairman, Olympic Training Center Coach and being taught by Gaspar Ortega, Willie Pep, George Fitch, George Russo and Johnny Datro.
who trained you and mentored you, Happy the Clown?

see ya Larry,

Ray.

I want to see your credentials
I want to see your credentials
I want to see your credentials
I want to see your credentials
I want to see your credentials
I want to see your credentials
I want to see your credentials
I want to see your credentials
I want to see your credentials
I want to see your credentials
I want to see your credentials
I want to see your credentials
I want to see your credentials
I want to see your credentials
I want to see your credentials
I want to see your credentials
I want to see your credentials
I want to see your credentials
I want to see your credentials
I want to see your credentials
I want to see your credentials
I want to see your credentials
I want to see your credentials
I want to see your credentials
I want to see your credentials
I want to see your credentials
I want to see your credentials
I want to see your credentials
I want to see your credentials
I want to see your credentials
I want to see your credentials
I want to see your credentials
I want to see your credentials
I want to see your credentials
I want to see your credentials
I want to see your credentials
I want to see your credentials
I want to see your credentials
I want to see your credentials
I want to see your credentials
I want to see your credentials
I want to see your credentials
I want to see your credentials
I want to see your credentials
I want to see your credentials
I want to see your credentials
I want to see your credentials
I want to see your credentials
I want to see your credentials
I want to see your credentials
I want to see your credentials
I want to see your credentials
I want to see your credentials
I want to see your credentials
I want to see your credentials
I want to see your credentials
I want to see your credentials
I want to see your credentials
I want to see your credentials
I want to see your credentials
I want to see your credentials
I want to see your credentials
I want to see your credentials
I want to see your credentials
I want to see your credentials
I want to see your credentials

[rightsideup]

once in bold may have been just as affective

[Mr.MojoRisin']

once in bold may have been just as affective

I've asked him 2 or 3 times already but he seems to be ducking me. Now if he posts again without showing proof then he is ducking me for certain.

[ShoulderRoll]

Pep would hold court at Ring 49 in Hartford. John Datro's gym in the late 50's and I think its still open to date run by one of Johns young fighters from the 70's. Simularb to my gym (Ring One) being run by Brian Clarke one of my members in the late 70's.
Pep would show me hand to hand checking which would become blocking then countering. He would explain to look for opponents tendancies for choosing which counters to use. Most times a check with your right would be a right counter (over the top or underneath) but if the opponent slipped to his right he would show me to drop my left hand where his head was. He would also explain that I am open for the opponents right hand by doing this but that would be my choice as I evaluated my opponents habits.
He was huge about using movement to bait an opponent and give the opponent false hopes when backing off and letting him think that the move was 100% defensive. Next time around he would step in with combos and then leave.
Pep was a strong man for his size and he had pop on his punches. He gave away size most times but if he felt he could get you out of there he went to work on it!
Pep was a great guy, fun to be with and a true entertainer in and out of the ring. He held court at Franks Rest. in Hartford after Starling fights and I miss those times greatly.
He worked a corner with me in the Garden one time and we had a ball, the corner was a little messy but fun!
He was a good teacher and he taught Starling a few tricks too.
He had great eye/hand and ofcourse the greatest mover of all time.
The Fred Astaire of boxing!
Ray

That sounds like an awesome experience. It's a shame that the old timers came around before instructional tapes and dvd's were a big thing, they could have recorded a lot of their knowledge for posterity.

Then again they probably would have said that you can't learn boxing from video anyway and that you had to actually get hands-on instruction to really understand.

Which is probably true even though I have picked up a lot from watching instructional dad's over the years, both in boxing and Brazilian jiu jitsu.

[Ray Corso]

You can't learn boxing from vids and tapes it has to be hands on. There are to many nuances and far to many things happening that an experienced eye can see and correct as it happens. The biggest challenge when teaching boxing is to correct what seems to be a "natural mistake" as it forms. Bad habits become part of a persons form. Boxing form and balance is not an easy
application to learn in the beginning, the early mistakes if not checked immediately
can become part of a fighters make up. A slight tilt of the head that gives away a move, an elbow that starts first as a punch is delivered! So many tiny seemingly unimportant things that are hard habits to notice then correct.
Just to teach the use of a mirror properly is so important for practicing form!

I can tell you that Pep would have made all the vids you wanted for the right pay day!!!!! hahaha The old timers had no problem spending money and having fun. Ofcourse if you've given away 5 or 6 houses like Pep did you needed some extra income. Fighters always loose at marriage it seems.
Ray

[billeau2]

I've asked him 2 or 3 times already but he seems to be ducking me. Now if he posts again without showing proof then he is ducking me for certain.

hey no offense, but who the fvk are you to make demands here? Don't mind my New York way of asking these delicate questions... I was born in a crack house what can I say

[billeau2]

You can't learn boxing from vids and tapes it has to be hands on. There are to many nuances and far to many things happening that an experienced eye can see and correct as it happens. The biggest challenge when teaching boxing is to correct what seems to be a "natural mistake" as it forms. Bad habits become part of a persons form. Boxing form and balance is not an easy
application to learn in the beginning, the early mistakes if not checked immediately
can become part of a fighters make up. A slight tilt of the head that gives away a move, an elbow that starts first as a punch is delivered! So many tiny seemingly unimportant things that are hard habits to notice then correct.
Just to teach the use of a mirror properly is so important for practicing form!

I can tell you that Pep would have made all the vids you wanted for the right pay day!!!!! hahaha The old timers had no problem spending money and having fun. Ofcourse if you've given away 5 or 6 houses like Pep did you needed some extra income. Fighters always loose at marriage it seems.
Ray

you bring back such memories! I went to University of Toronto and had become pretty damn good actually...if I may say so myself! I had heard of this teacher there...Edward Brown. People often avoided the guy because he was for real and not for ego gratification. I had learned under one of Jack Hoben's students and he had a good reputation as a no nonsense kind of guy which went with my make up...

So I go there and he sees my falling skills and that I am no slouch. I notice immediately that I had never worked intimately in a class with a guy this good...little explosive fellow! had seen some really good teachers at seminars, but this was guy had a class and not many students!

he pulls me aside after class and tells me I am very good. he says that he can let me come in and do my thing, he has no problem with this, he can give me subtle corrections, or, what do they say about the red pill, i.e. he can treat me like one of his guys. I was a good kid and really invested in the truth so naturally? I say to him I want the works.

I can honestly say I never had a fun class in all the time i trained with this guy...he violated me, by pulling apart every bad habit I had acquired in my movement since coming out of my momma!! and heres the thing: It takes a day to get good at something, and develop ****ty habits...and it takes a year to get rid of those habits...I cursed myself for all the freeplay i had enjoyed on the mat all these years... Edward was relentless and to my credit? I never complained and asked for more and more and got it in spades.
AGain!!! bad habits take soooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much more time to undo!!! man I learned that the hard hard way.

So i was teaching in Toronto and all of a sudden I do somethng and (I still am angry at myself for this, there was no excuse except it was not deliberate) its a small movement, sort of like a Dempsey punch and student goes to the floor withering....a big guy, beefy and strong, I laugh and tell him to shake it off....i basically broke three ribs. he was a great sport about it, again, when I meet my maker that will be on the naughty list...But Edward had changed my movement and I was not prepared for it.

When i got back to San Franciso i was throwing the guys (my class) around with no effort, it was amazing, I saw what good teaching can really do.
When Ray says that the subtleties are important and bad habits will set you back? its one of the ways I know he knows what he is talking about. I experienced it.

[Mr.MojoRisin']

hey no offense, but who the fvk are you to make demands here? Don't mind my New York way of asking these delicate questions... I was born in a crack house what can I say

It's extremely annoying to come on here and find posts from someone who is condescending as hell and acts like his word is final. He expects everyone to take his word on it WHEN COMMUNICATING OVER THE INTERNET! I wouldn't be addressing this issue if he didn't act like a 5 year old (He's not the only one). Someone who claims to have done as much as him and as old as he claims he is should be a little bit more professional. Also, he claims to have proof that he is the "almighty" Ray Corso, if he does then great I would obviously like to see it because it would increase the value of his opinion by ten-fold. A person who actually has first hand experience working with great fighters trumps everyone on this forum.

This forum is really sloppy btw, on other forums threads don't turn into debates about who is more knowledgable, a more professional approach is expected especially in the boxing history section. It's useless to name call someone because of their opinion when talking about subjects that can't be proven.

[rightsideup]

I've asked him 2 or 3 times already but he seems to be ducking me. Now if he posts again without showing proof then he is ducking me for certain.

ray is a respected member of this community I for one do not see the need to lose any sleep over what you are obsessing over he makes intelligent contributions to this forum and has a respect for the fighters and trainers we discuss.