Originally posted by billeau2
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Greatest Heavyweights of all time list 1969
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Originally posted by billeau2 View PostIf I may use this post to say that my comments in this thread are not meant to disparage Fleischer....and indeed the cameras had a lot to do with why some footage looks insane. Which is why we need voices of boxing people who were around to see the events discussed. Good Post.
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Originally posted by Ben Bolt View PostYes, London was a brilliant writer. And though I know he was a man formed by his time - when I learned about his thoughts before and during and after the Johnson-Jeffries encounter, I couldn't appreciate his writings anymore.
Every man and writer is formed by his times, as you said. London was no pamphleteer a la Wagner, foamily promoting a racist agenda, as far as I know, but he did speak out on this occasion. In the end it does not mattter a whit, any more than Genet being a common criminal and miscreant does. Jack's view of the world was stark and brutal social Darwinism. He did that better than anyone else.
I am satisfied that Johnson gave both Corbett and London a massive whipping as he manhandled Jefferies that day. I do not appreciate Isaac Newton's work less because he was a really unpleasant fellow who made several other great men entirely miserable for many years for petty reasons.
I know what you are saying, though. For years I refused to listen to any of Wagner's music because of his extreme anti semitism. Then I said, what the hell, the guy was twisted, but still great. That music will be around long after Wagner's silly pamphlets are scarce or non-existent in museums. These days, even ***s conduct Wagner with passion.
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Originally posted by billeau2 View PostIf I may use this post to say that my comments in this thread are not meant to disparage Fleischer....and indeed the cameras had a lot to do with why some footage looks insane. Which is why we need voices of boxing people who were around to see the events discussed. Good Post.
However, it's important to put things in their right perspective! Reporters who wrote in gloving terms about boxers around the turn of the last century, may have felt they were watching the greatest fighters ever. And they may very well have been right - up until that time! But would they have been as impressed with those boxers, if they had seen a Robinson, Louis or Pep?
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Originally posted by sonnyboyx2 View PostNat Fleischer founder of the Ring Magazine compiled this list in 1969 only days before the death of Rocky Marciano - Joe Frazier was the universally accepted Heavyweight Champion of the World.
1/. Jack Johnson
2/. James J. Jeffries
3/. Bob Fitzsimmons
4/. Jack Dempsey
5/. James J. Corbett
6/. Joe Louis
7/. Sam Langford
8/. Gene Tunney
9/. Max Schmelling
10/. Rocky Marciano
Fleischer claimed " Anyone in his Top 10 would have had an easy night taking care of Muhammad Ali" - Fleischer claimed "Jack Johnson was the greatest who ever lived"..
what are your opinions?
My list is changing from time to time but goes something like this:
1) Ali
2) Louis
3) Foreman
4) Dempsey
5) Holmes
6) Frazier
7) Holyfield
8) Johnson
9) Marciano
10) Lewis
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I reckon the ultimate heavyweight champion was Megalodon, it was a gigantic shark the weighed, get this................... 100 TONS.... now that has to be the champ........ this of course is a post not to be taken seriously folks but hey, glad that beast doesn't exist these days.
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Originally posted by Ben Bolt View PostI think I mentioned it before, that surveys have shown people get their favorite athletes when they’re young, and keep holding them in highest regard later on in life.
So Fleischer’s (born 1887) comment on Ali isn’t surprising, nor him placing Louis only 6th.
It also means, a lot of today’s teenage boxing fans will always idolize Wlad.
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Originally posted by sonnyboyx2 View Posti cannot remember if it was Joe Gans or Battling Nelson.. But a study of their fights was done by "Computer punch stats" compared to modern day champions Floyd Mayweather & Co.. believe it or not, but the old timers won hands down round after round. They also fought for 45rd fights not 12rds like today. They also fought out-doors in 100*+ heat, unlike todays air-conditioned arena's. They also used 4oz gloves, unlike today's 8 & 10oz gloves. No standing 8 count back then, No early stoppages back then. No PHDs back then. No hand-picking your opponents back then. the best fought the best.
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Originally posted by juggernaut666 View PostFitzsimmons takes care of ali easily?Yea sure he does...My guess is you've never seen him actually fight how else would a knowledgable person make that statement!The FACT this guy has Fitszimmons at number 3 truly shows how much garbage Ring magazine spews even back then and Jefferies at number 2 is just as bad..The vid provided will show just how laughable that one really is.......
NO one on that list should be over Ali...NO one!
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