Are We Sure Ali Was Better Than Louis?

[StarshipTrooper]

Is that who that is?

Yep :hahahaha9:

[StarshipTrooper]

Or on the subway rails.

/greeh

As long as he makes sure he sit on the third rail.

[Sceptic]

Career wise Louis and Ali were very close on accomplishments. Louis was the better man outside the ring however.

[McGoorty]

As a huge Ali fan, I will acknowledge that Joe Louis was a better boxer, and harder puncher, and more technically sound than my guy. And, admittedly, when I occasionally sit down and rank the top heavies of all time, I find myself wanting to put Louis in the top slot.....only to remove him after ****ing my head against a wall.

It's a tough call; but I feel Louis and Ali vie for the top slot and depending on which day you ask me, I'll give you a different answer. Louis's 4-round destruction of Max Baer (who was not a good boxer) 4 months after losing his title is probably the most impressive victory he had. There were other really good fighters he'd beaten before and after: Schmeling, Nova, Pastor, Burman, Conn (light-heavy, I know...but showed character), Mauriello, Simon etc.

Unfortunately, most modern fans remember Louis for the "bum of the month" club. They weren't all bums. And it takes a special set of gonads to hold the heavyweight title for as long as he did and lose only once near his prime, only to avenge it in a most brutal manor.

Head to head, I think Ali wins. I believe this largely due to the difficulty Louis had with Conn in the first fight. Ali was at least as fast as Conn and hit a lot harder; but, of course, this is all conjecture.

You don't make 25 title defenses and get overlooked haphazardly; not in a world where there's any justice. While, as an Ali fan, I could have some nice spirited conversations/discussions with anyone who says Louis was greater, in reality........I have to admit they have a point. He deserves to be considered. He earned it.

To me and probably to most of you here, the Heavyweight division is totally different to every other weight class in boxing because it is like temperature itself, temperature has a limit only at the freezing end of the scale but as far as HEAT goes, there is no limit, I am of course referring to SIZE, you can be sure that if future men reach heights of 12 feet tall and the muscle mass to carry such enormous bones that there will one day be 12 feet 600 KG's heavyweights.............. Size really does matter in boxing, two equally skilled fighters but one small and one large guy, the big fella always wins. There have not been very many seriously great heavyweights, but there are dozens of great middleweights and welters and especially in the historically amazing Lightweight division. .................................................. .................................................. ............................... .......................... Head to head comparisons in the heavyweight division are not really much like head to head comparisons in any other division, Middleweights have always weighed the same so I have no problem with this sort of question with other weights, a Tommy Ryan vs Bernard Hopkins type matchup I find far more interesting and is fair as a contest. The Heavyweight division is a bit like the original UFC, where there were no weight classes.

[Greatest1942]

Louis is #1 for me, Ali #2

[McGoorty]

Knock off all the cruisers and bums and suddenly Louis only had 7 title defences! There's ya REAL Joe Louis!

Wow, so that is all you get from Louis's career is it ? so the opinion of virtually every fighter, expert, trainer, journalist and ex pugs carries no weight with you eh ?, the heavyweight who carried all before him for the most part of two decades and all you can say about that great man is that short paragraph. Have you just ever thought about USING YOUR EYES and actually watching all his amazing fights ?, the eyes have it and they do not lie, the only ***** in Louis's armour is that he didn't have a chin of the calibre of a Greb, a Darcy, A Marciano, a Basilio, an Ali or a Hagler. .............................. .................................................. .................................................. .......................................... Louis didn't have a glass jaw either, his jaw was simply human like, in other words he could be knocked out but only a true bomb ever knocked Joe off his feet.

[McGoorty]

I rate Joe Louis number one! His Methods & Techniques are superior to heavyweights from his era to the current contenders. He was schooled by a great trainer and continued to learn technique throughout his career!
His offense was filled with body & head work using both hands equally with power in both hands. He blocked and slipped then countered with both hands (something no one does today) he was methodilcal and in great shape to be able to punch hard early and late in his bouts!
He was the most complete Heavy then and now to me! Perfect size 6'2"/ 190 to 200lbs. Fought anyone and everyone! .....was an American Hero and a credit to his race................the Human race! Ray

Ali was anomaly, he did modst things wrong (leaning away, rarely body worked etc) but had the fastest hands & feet ever seen in the division. He was first known as the Sugar Ray of the Heavyweights! His laterial movement made him untouchable and his in & out moves astounded opponents!
I believe Ali at his very best would be unbeatable!

I am not sure who is the real number one but I agree with what you say about Louis's ability, Ali is a fair bit larger than Louis and a bit faster but offensively I have no doubt at all that Joe Louis's offensive abilities are indeed unmatched in the HW division, it's hard to imagine a HW with all that. Joe was not as hard a puncher as Marciano or Foreman but who was ? those two were uber punchers but of course Louis ranks right up there in the bomb stakes but the big difference was that Joe threw PERFECT bombs with more accuracy than anyone in the HW's, Joe was the great technician, so good that Sugar Ray modelled himself after Louis as much as he possibly could. Joe Louis's greatness can only ever be questioned by an uber imbecile.

[Panamaniac]

As an international boxing and socio-political icon, Ali was better than Louis; inside the ring, (as HW) Louis ranks 1st. with Ali 2nd.

Next question...

[-Huey-]

Joe Louis was the better boxer!

[Anthony342]

To me and probably to most of you here, the Heavyweight division is totally different to every other weight class in boxing because it is like temperature itself, temperature has a limit only at the freezing end of the scale but as far as HEAT goes, there is no limit, I am of course referring to SIZE, you can be sure that if future men reach heights of 12 feet tall and the muscle mass to carry such enormous bones that there will one day be 12 feet 600 KG's heavyweights.............. Size really does matter in boxing, two equally skilled fighters but one small and one large guy, the big fella always wins. There have not been very many seriously great heavyweights, but there are dozens of great middleweights and welters and especially in the historically amazing Lightweight division. .................................................. .................................................. ............................... .......................... Head to head comparisons in the heavyweight division are not really much like head to head comparisons in any other division, Middleweights have always weighed the same so I have no problem with this sort of question with other weights, a Tommy Ryan vs Bernard Hopkins type matchup I find far more interesting and is fair as a contest. The Heavyweight division is a bit like the original UFC, where there were no weight classes.

True. And of course size makes a difference when skills are equal. That's why weight classes are needed. MMA even started to realize the importance of this after a while. Royce Gracie was able to beat bigger opponents because his skill level on the ground was that much better than most opponents. Once they caught up in grappling and opponents got better at takedown defense and countering submissions, the sport kind of passed him by, plus he was past his prime by then, but he was still a pioneer with great skill, which makes him an ATG. Pride even used to give the edge in scoring to the smaller fighter if a fight was close on the scorecards because of the advantage a fighter with more weight had, if skill level was even. They eventually started using weight classes, ended up with about 5 and recently have started adding even more for in between classes and smaller fighters, like boxing eventually did after they had their original 8 weight classes. I just hope it doesn't become like boxing with so many weight classes. I think 5-10 pounds in between seems about right but with boxing, some of them are only about 3 pounds apart.