If Dempsey Had Defended Against Wills,Godfrey & Norfolk?

[Ivich]

If Jack Dempsey had been a more active champion and had taken on probably the three most dangerous black heavyweight contenders that I've named,how would he have fared?
Would he have still been champion after those three fights?
Or would one of them have taken his title,and if so which one?

[Marchegiano]

He'd be harder to hate on presently.

I think for a black man to become champion he'd have to knock Jack out for a duration a bit longer than you usual ten count and that seems rather unlikely. So, victory, I think is still very much in Dempsey's favor without even taking into account his power and ability to deliver that power, but probably at least one of them fellows gives Jack a hell of a fight.

[QueensburyRules]

If Jack Dempsey had been a more active champion and had taken on probably the three most dangerous black heavyweight contenders that I've named,how would he have fared?
Would he have still been champion after those three fights?
Or would one of them have taken his title,and if so which one?

- - Godfrey a dirty low blow fighter was one of a dozen spar partners Jack employed.

Godfrey pulled the stunt one day and Jack promptly cracked a couple of ribs.

Wills the only black fighter to challenge him, but it’s been proven time and again the politicos of the day made it impossible to make.

Might as well ask what if he fought young Clay of the Liston fights.

How about you vs Tinkerbelle…

[Willie Pep 229]

- - Godfrey a dirty low blow fighter was one of a dozen spar partners Jack employed.

Godfrey pulled the stunt one day and Jack promptly cracked a couple of ribs.

Wills the only black fighter to challenge him, but it’s been proven time and again the politicos of the day made it impossible to make.

Might as well ask what if he fought young Clay of the Liston fights.

How about you vs Tinkerbelle…

Clay-Dempsey in a 1964 universe.

Clay too fast and refuses to engage. He busts up Dempsey's face; with the fight stopped late. Clay by TKO 12 rounds.

Dempsey down maybe in a flash but not hurt.

Clay too big for Dempsey and the perfect style to beat him.

Dempsey-Clay in a 1922 universe.

Might be different. It's hard to imagine Clay being Clay and be able to fight the necessary fight he needs to, in 1922. Still give the edge to Clay.

Dempsey's one shot is his left hook. Could Clay takes the hook that downed Willard?*

Clay's one weakness in his 'pull back the head' style of defense was that he could (did) get caught at the end of left hooks. At its full extention, is not a good place to meet up with a hook. E.G. Copper, Frazier, Banks.**


* 1964 vs 1922 would count much in this siutation. No neutral corner rule could play into the event.


** It looks to me from the video that it is a left hook the puts Ali down. Someone might see it different.

[Ivich]

- - Godfrey a dirty low blow fighter was one of a dozen spar partners Jack employed.

Godfrey pulled the stunt one day and Jack promptly cracked a couple of ribs.

Wills the only black fighter to challenge him, but it’s been proven time and again the politicos of the day made it impossible to make.

Might as well ask what if he fought young Clay of the Liston fights.

How about you vs Tinkerbelle…

WTF have you ever contributed here?
Why don't you do us all a favour and cut your throat?

[Willow The Wisp]

Harry Wills, George Godfrey, Kid Norfolk, Bill Tate, Brad Simmons, Long Tom Hawkins, Al Walker, "Big" Bill Hartwell, Mack House, Sam Baker, Dynamite Jackson, Larry Gains, Neil Clisby, Bearcat Wright, Roscoe Hall, Bob Lawson, Battling Jim Johnson, Sam Baker, John Lester Johnson, Tango Kid, Tut Jackson, Topeka Jack Johnson, William "Rough House" Ware, Cuban Bobby Brown, "Cowboy" Billy Owens, Clyde Colvin, Seal Harris, Jeff Clark, Jack Thompson, Lee Anderson, Willie Henry, Sandy Layne, Andy Johnson, George Christian, Tom Overby, Kid Jackson, Clem Johnson, Buddy Jackson, George Kid Cotton, Rufe Cameron, Cleve Hawkins, "Fighting" Bob Lee, Hale "KO" Brown, Pinky Lewis, Battling Jim McCreary, Bill Watkins, Jack Livingstone, George Robinson, Battling Norfolk, Battling Randolph, Jim Cameron.........Dempsey would have beaten em' all.

The color line was not Dempsey's to draw. That was society's issue.

I think strong he beats em' all.

[kara]

Harry Wills, George Godfrey, Kid Norfolk, Bill Tate, Brad Simmons, Long Tom Hawkins, Al Walker, "Big" Bill Hartwell, Mack House, Sam Baker, Dynamite Jackson, Larry Gains, Neil Clisby, Bearcat Wright, Roscoe Hall, Bob Lawson, Battling Jim Johnson, Sam Baker, John Lester Johnson, Tango Kid, Tut Jackson, Topeka Jack Johnson, William "Rough House" Ware, Cuban Bobby Brown, "Cowboy" Billy Owens, Clyde Colvin, Seal Harris, Jeff Clark, Jack Thompson, Lee Anderson, Willie Henry, Sandy Layne, Andy Johnson, George Christian, Tom Overby, Kid Jackson, Clem Johnson, Buddy Jackson, George Kid Cotton, Rufe Cameron, Cleve Hawkins, "Fighting" Bob Lee, Hale "KO" Brown, Pinky Lewis, Battling Jim McCreary, Bill Watkins, Jack Livingstone, George Robinson, Battling Norfolk, Battling Randolph, Jim Cameron.........Dempsey would have beaten em' all.

The color line was not Dempsey's to draw. That was society's issue.

I think strong he beats em' all.

I agree with Willow here.

[QueensburyRules]

Clay-Dempsey in a 1964 universe.

Clay too fast and refuses to engage. He busts up Dempsey's face; with the fight stopped late. Clay by TKO 12 rounds.

Dempsey down maybe in a flash but not hurt.

Clay too big for Dempsey and the perfect style to beat him.

Dempsey-Clay in a 1922 universe.

Might be different. It's hard to imagine Clay being Clay and be able to fight the necessary fight he needs to, in 1922. Still give the edge to Clay.

Dempsey's one shot is his left hook. Could Clay takes the hook that downed Willard?*

Clay's one weakness in his 'pull back the head' style of defense was that he could (did) get caught at the end of left hooks. At its full extention, is not a good place to meet up with a hook. E.G. Copper, Frazier, Banks.**


* 1964 vs 1922 would count much in this siutation. No neutral corner rule could play into the event.


** It looks to me from the video that it is a left hook the puts Ali down. Someone might see it different.

- - I’d pick the Willard Dempsey over any of the Clay Liston farces.

Clay like his Frazier fight picks the wrong fighter to rile up.

See Cooper and Jones where he was embarrased.

[billeau2]

If Jack Dempsey had been a more active champion and had taken on probably the three most dangerous black heavyweight contenders that I've named,how would he have fared?
Would he have still been champion after those three fights?
Or would one of them have taken his title,and if so which one?

Of the three I find Godfrey an interesting and potential "Dark Horse." I know I know if it offends anyone? "potential and suprising front runner. I don't know much about Kid Norfolk, but Godfrey did get props and had a lot of experience with quality fighters. I guess one question is what was Jack's Krypton? I don't think the extreme strength and crazy push out of the ring by the Pampano Bull tells us much: Size, strength... But what of a strong fighter, with experience, and some technical chops? Tunney was successful, but thats kind of like saying "Any Physicist that upholds the General Theory of Relativity is an Einstein."

What I like about Godfrey potentially is his toughness. The intangibles. During the color line Black Fighters had different experiences than White fighters: A Black fighter, much like the great karate fighters of the sixties, had to fight the same murderer's row of competitors. We also see this in MMA I suppose... is there some advantage to this experience that Godfrey could use against Dempsey? I think it is possible.

[Ivich]

Of the three I find Godfrey an interesting and potential "Dark Horse." I know I know if it offends anyone? "potential and suprising front runner. I don't know much about Kid Norfolk, but Godfrey did get props and had a lot of experience with quality fighters. I guess one question is what was Jack's Krypton? I don't think the extreme strength and crazy push out of the ring by the Pampano Bull tells us much: Size, strength... But what of a strong fighter, with experience, and some technical chops? Tunney was successful, but thats kind of like saying "Any Physicist that upholds the General Theory of Relativity is an Einstein."

What I like about Godfrey potentially is his toughness. The intangibles. During the color line Black Fighters had different experiences than White fighters: A Black fighter, much like the great karate fighters of the sixties, had to fight the same murderer's row of competitors. We also see this in MMA I suppose... is there some advantage to this experience that Godfrey could use against Dempsey? I think it is possible.

Nice to hear from one our quality posters!