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Weight Division History, Champions, Disputes, and Authorities - A Work In Progress

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    Weight Division History, Champions, Disputes, and Authorities - A Work In Progress

    Alrighty mi matey-ohs....I dunno why I started like a pirate but I did and I likes it so that **** is staying.

    This opening page basically doesn't matter yet, I have very little to say with any strength or authority at the moment, but, I want to get the ball rolling, and, more importantly I want this one to be open work.

    I did my HW champions from ancient to now and my Authorities from ancient to now alone. On Notepad.

    There's been this recent push here and there, I keep getting tagged in, for more in-depth divisional history akin to my HW/Authority works. Simple, to the point, no narrative, just facts that when plugged into a search reveal narrative. Youse lot understand because youse lot look stuff up as well. To make a quick and easy to use resource like that you actually have to know the history and narratives really well because you are the guy pulling the facts out.

    What I mean is, if someone had done it, I'd have found it by now. It's like lineal or HWs, there are accepted narratives but no complete or effort for complete pictures.

    Which means if folks want a complete picture, including the claimants and such, then someone has to read all the narratives and paperclippings and **** they can to make a resource of names, divisions, and dates that others can easily look up. It's a very intimate way of getting to know the material.

    So, what this is for, is a thread so youse guys can help me out, if you want. I can do it alone but it will take longer and will be another one of my works that I own alone, I'd rather the community do it together. I like my brags but I'd like sharing them too.

    What the goal is, is a complete depiction of the history of weight divisions, the champions, the major disputes, and the bodies influences from the ancient period to the present Bridgerweight addition.

    What the goal is NOT, is anything to do with exclusion. What I mean is, one champion being legitimate or more legitimate should not exclude another, less legitimate, claimant from the history. Both should be covered in full. Who they were, what their claims were, and when they were. It is okay to have contradictory claims because we're not trying to tell folks who the legitimate claimant is, we are trying to tell them who all the claimants were as best we can.


    I'll give an example of something I know of but have yet to work out the reasoning

    Folks say Joe Gans was the first black world champion in 1902

    Ferns beats Smith twice, Barbados beats Ferns, the year is 1901. What's up with it?

    Under my completed list they would go

    Barbados - Welter - 1901
    Gan - Light - 1902

    I mean not exactly but you get the jist. This begs what's up with the narrative you hear a bit more than simply listing the accepted legitimate champions, which, in turn reveals more well rounded history to current fans who don't understand things like why the heavier divisions have bigger leaps of weight between each division than the small ones. They don't understand because the story of "legitimate" champions doesn't cover it.

    We will.....or I will here all open for youse to watch.



    Citizen Koba Citizen Koba likes this.

    #2
    Originally posted by Marchegiano View Post

    I'll give an example of something I know of but have yet to work out the reasoning

    Folks say Joe Gans was the first black world champion in 1902

    Ferns beats Smith twice, Barbados beats Ferns, the year is 1901. What's up with it?

    Under my completed list they would go

    Barbados - Welter - 1901
    Gan - Light - 1902
    - - Gans the first 'murican champ.

    Canadian George Dixon the first black champ ca 1890-1900.

    Barbodos Joe Walcott the next black champ and then Gans...You're welcome...

    Marchegiano Marchegiano likes this.

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by QueensburyRules View Post

      - - Gans the first 'murican champ.

      Canadian George Dixon the first black champ ca 1890-1900.

      Barbodos Joe Walcott the next black champ and then Gans...You're welcome...
      Dixon gets the 'undisputed title' (God I hate that term) when he knocks out the amateur champion Jack Skelly in eight rounds. (New Orleans, 1892).

      I see that some fights were billed as title fights before that - but I question how 'nation wide' they were accepted as such. The fights from Egenue Hornbacher and up to Fred Johnson (8 fights inclusive) are all cited as title fights of some sort, but look more like claims than recognitions.

      But regardless Dixon is the first, if not before certainly by 1892.
      Marchegiano Marchegiano likes this.

      Comment


        #4
        Not a great intro to be honest. Tried to layout what I want to do without giving a directive for acceptable parameters and failed totally at it, but reckon as this rolls folks will get it.


        Gonna kick this off the same way I had the others. With the accepted and widely available information first. Then I will endeavor to add to lineal and major sanctioning body lists with claimants and the like.

        Starting with CW because it is the easiest....well I guess BW is but it's so easy it doesn't even need brought up....for I'll just do it, Rivas, done.



        From CBZ:

        Marvin Camel

        Carlos "Sugar" DeLeon

        S.T. Gordon

        Carlos "Sugar" DeLeon

        Alfonso Ratliff

        Bernard Benton

        Carlos "Sugar" DeLeon

        Evander Holyfield (1988, moved to heavyweight)

        O'Neil Bell (2006-2007)

        Jean Marc Mormeck (2007)

        David Haye (2007-2008, moved to heavyweight)

        Tomasz Adamek (2007-2009; from the Cunningham win)

        Oleksandr Usyk (2018-2019, moved to heavyweight)



        For me, I'd just add dates. I like beginning years myself.



        Marvin Camel - 1980

        Carlos "Sugar" DeLeon - 1980

        S.T. Gordon - 1982

        Carlos "Sugar" DeLeon - 1983

        Alfonso Ratliff - 1985

        Bernard Benton - 1985

        Carlos "Sugar" DeLeon - 1986

        Evander Holyfield - 1988

        O'Neil Bell - 2006

        Jean Marc Mormeck - 2007

        David Haye - 2007

        Tomasz Adamek - 2007

        Oleksandr Usyk - 2018


        Now I'd add the body champions.


        Marvin Camel - 1980

        Carlos "Sugar" DeLeon - 1980

        Ossie Ocasio - 1982

        S.T. Gordon - 1982

        Carlos "Sugar" DeLeon - 1983

        Marvin Camel - 1983

        Lee Roy Murphy - 1984

        Piet Crous - 1984

        Alfonso Ratliff - 1985

        Dwight Muhammad Qawi - 1985

        Bernard Benton - 1985

        Carlos "Sugar" DeLeon - 1986

        Evander Holyfield - 1986

        Rickey Parkey - 1986

        Evander Holyfield - 1987

        Evander Holyfield - 1988

        Taoufik Belbouli - 1989

        Carlos De León - 1989

        Glenn McCrory - 1989

        Robert Daniels - 1989

        Boone Pultz - 1989

        Jeff Lampkin - 1990

        Magne Havnå - 1990

        Massimiliano Duran - 1990

        Bobby Czyz - 1991

        Anaclet Wamba - 1991

        James Warring - 1991

        Tyrone Booze - 1992

        Alfred Cole - 1992

        Markus Bott - 1993

        Nestor Hipolito Giovannini - 1993

        Orlin Norris - 1993

        Dariusz Michalczewski - 1994

        Ralf Rocchigiani - 1995

        Nate Miller - 1995

        Marcelo Dominguez - 1995

        Adolpho Washington - 1996

        Uriah Grant - 1997

        Carl Thompson - 1997

        Imamu Mayfield - 1997

        Fabrice Tiozzo - 1997

        Juan Carlos Gómez - 1998

        Arthur Williams - 1998

        Johnny Nelson - 1999

        Vassiliy Jirov - 1999

        Virgil Hill - 2000

        Jean-Marc Mormeck -2002

        Wayne Braithwaite - 2002

        James Toney - 2003

        Kelvin Davis - 2004

        O'Neil Bell - 2005

        Jean-Marc Mormeck -2005

        O'Neil Bell - 2006

        Virgil Hill - 2006

        O'Neil Bell - 2006

        Enzo Maccarinelli - 2006

        Krzysztof Włodarczyk - 2006

        Jean Marc Mormeck - 2007

        Steve Cunningham - 2007

        David Haye - 2007

        Firat Arslan - 2007

        Tomasz Adamek - 2007

        David Haye - 2008

        Guillermo Jones - 2008

        Giacobbe Fragomeni - 2008

        Tomasz Adamek - 2008

        Victor Emilio Ramírez - 2009

        Marco Huck - 2009

        Zsolt Erdei - 2009

        Krzysztof Włodarczyk - 2010

        Steve Cunningham - 2010

        Yoan Pablo Hernández - 2011

        Denis Lebedev - 2012

        Tony Bellew - 2016

        Krzysztof Głowacki - 2014

        Victor Emilio Ramirez - 2015

        Denis Lebedev - 2016

        Oleksandr Usyk - 2016

        Murat Gassiev - 2016

        Mairis Briedis - 2017

        Oleksandr Usyk - 2018

        Murat Gassiev - 2018

        Oleksandr Usyk - 2018

        Arsen Goulamirian - 2019

        Ilunga Makabu - 2020

        Mairis Briedis - 2020

        Lawrence Okolie - 2021


        And since there's no claimants or anything else to consider CW is done.

        All major champions accounted for, no disputes or claims to go over. Anything else from here is just adding information like who is lineal or who was WBO or whatever.

        Doing 105 next because that one should be a bit harder and more interesting.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Marchegiano View Post
          Not a great intro to be honest. Tried to layout what I want to do without giving a directive for acceptable parameters and failed totally at it, but reckon as this rolls folks will get it.


          Gonna kick this off the same way I had the others. With the accepted and widely available information first. Then I will endeavor to add to lineal and major sanctioning body lists with claimants and the like.

          Starting with CW because it is the easiest....well I guess BW is but it's so easy it doesn't even need brought up....for I'll just do it, Rivas, done.



          From CBZ:

          Marvin Camel

          Carlos "Sugar" DeLeon

          S.T. Gordon

          Carlos "Sugar" DeLeon

          Alfonso Ratliff

          Bernard Benton

          Carlos "Sugar" DeLeon

          Evander Holyfield (1988, moved to heavyweight)

          O'Neil Bell (2006-2007)

          Jean Marc Mormeck (2007)

          David Haye (2007-2008, moved to heavyweight)

          Tomasz Adamek (2007-2009; from the Cunningham win)

          Oleksandr Usyk (2018-2019, moved to heavyweight)



          For me, I'd just add dates. I like beginning years myself.



          Marvin Camel - 1980

          Carlos "Sugar" DeLeon - 1980

          S.T. Gordon - 1982

          Carlos "Sugar" DeLeon - 1983

          Alfonso Ratliff - 1985

          Bernard Benton - 1985

          Carlos "Sugar" DeLeon - 1986

          Evander Holyfield - 1988

          O'Neil Bell - 2006

          Jean Marc Mormeck - 2007

          David Haye - 2007

          Tomasz Adamek - 2007

          Oleksandr Usyk - 2018


          Now I'd add the body champions.


          Marvin Camel - 1980

          Carlos "Sugar" DeLeon - 1980

          Ossie Ocasio - 1982

          S.T. Gordon - 1982

          Carlos "Sugar" DeLeon - 1983

          Marvin Camel - 1983

          Lee Roy Murphy - 1984

          Piet Crous - 1984

          Alfonso Ratliff - 1985

          Dwight Muhammad Qawi - 1985

          Bernard Benton - 1985

          Carlos "Sugar" DeLeon - 1986

          Evander Holyfield - 1986

          Rickey Parkey - 1986

          Evander Holyfield - 1987

          Evander Holyfield - 1988

          Taoufik Belbouli - 1989

          Carlos De León - 1989

          Glenn McCrory - 1989

          Robert Daniels - 1989

          Boone Pultz - 1989

          Jeff Lampkin - 1990

          Magne Havnå - 1990

          Massimiliano Duran - 1990

          Bobby Czyz - 1991

          Anaclet Wamba - 1991

          James Warring - 1991

          Tyrone Booze - 1992

          Alfred Cole - 1992

          Markus Bott - 1993

          Nestor Hipolito Giovannini - 1993

          Orlin Norris - 1993

          Dariusz Michalczewski - 1994

          Ralf Rocchigiani - 1995

          Nate Miller - 1995

          Marcelo Dominguez - 1995

          Adolpho Washington - 1996

          Uriah Grant - 1997

          Carl Thompson - 1997

          Imamu Mayfield - 1997

          Fabrice Tiozzo - 1997

          Juan Carlos Gómez - 1998

          Arthur Williams - 1998

          Johnny Nelson - 1999

          Vassiliy Jirov - 1999

          Virgil Hill - 2000

          Jean-Marc Mormeck -2002

          Wayne Braithwaite - 2002

          James Toney - 2003

          Kelvin Davis - 2004

          O'Neil Bell - 2005

          Jean-Marc Mormeck -2005

          O'Neil Bell - 2006

          Virgil Hill - 2006

          O'Neil Bell - 2006

          Enzo Maccarinelli - 2006

          Krzysztof Włodarczyk - 2006

          Jean Marc Mormeck - 2007

          Steve Cunningham - 2007

          David Haye - 2007

          Firat Arslan - 2007

          Tomasz Adamek - 2007

          David Haye - 2008

          Guillermo Jones - 2008

          Giacobbe Fragomeni - 2008

          Tomasz Adamek - 2008

          Victor Emilio Ramírez - 2009

          Marco Huck - 2009

          Zsolt Erdei - 2009

          Krzysztof Włodarczyk - 2010

          Steve Cunningham - 2010

          Yoan Pablo Hernández - 2011

          Denis Lebedev - 2012

          Tony Bellew - 2016

          Krzysztof Głowacki - 2014

          Victor Emilio Ramirez - 2015

          Denis Lebedev - 2016

          Oleksandr Usyk - 2016

          Murat Gassiev - 2016

          Mairis Briedis - 2017

          Oleksandr Usyk - 2018

          Murat Gassiev - 2018

          Oleksandr Usyk - 2018

          Arsen Goulamirian - 2019

          Ilunga Makabu - 2020

          Mairis Briedis - 2020

          Lawrence Okolie - 2021


          And since there's no claimants or anything else to consider CW is done.

          All major champions accounted for, no disputes or claims to go over. Anything else from here is just adding information like who is lineal or who was WBO or whatever.

          Doing 105 next because that one should be a bit harder and more interesting.
          Green - Jamaican
          Marchegiano Marchegiano likes this.

          Comment


            #6
            Been looking from the 1889 English CW champion, anyone got any info?

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Marchegiano View Post
              Been looking from the 1889 English CW champion, anyone got any info?
              That's going to be tough to track down

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by markusmod View Post

                That's going to be tough to track down
                No luck so far. I don't have much to go off:

                the English class cruiserweights (from 1889-1937) became light heavyweight (1937-present). The name reappeared in America (in 1980) for a new class of 190, then 195, and currently 200 pound boxers.

                from boxrec.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Whole damn sunday wasted looking for this 19th english version of CW.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Marchegiano View Post

                    No luck so far. I don't have much to go off:

                    the English class cruiserweights (from 1889-1937) became light heavyweight (1937-present). The name reappeared in America (in 1980) for a new class of 190, then 195, and currently 200 pound boxers.

                    from boxrec.
                    What about those IBRO guys?

                    Comment

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