Any one knows John L Sullivan's real boxing record????

[RockyMarcianofan00]

Somehow a guy who can fight for 76 rounds and 4 hours, bare-knuckle whether ****ty competition or not doesn't seem like he should be called a bad fighter...

Here's a good vid=

[BKM-]

Well how is it all the white fighters from the turn of the century are garbage, yet Jack Johnson somehow manages to slip through butterfly's analysis.

At least he gives Jack Dempsey credit, which means I still have some respect for him....

Lets face it Butterfly if John Sullivan and James Jefferies and all the other white fighters fought bums how is it that Jack Johnson who fought around the same time period fought good competition....

..

[butterfly1964]

No they aren't, but they didn't consider blacks equal to human beings back then either. I'm hypothesizing a situation where a hundred years from now they look back at our slaughter of animals with disgust, like we do on slavery, even though slavery was seen as a normal thing at the time.

Remember in Huckleberry Finn was Finn actually felt bad about running off with Jim, because he was so brainwashed to think that helping a slave escape was stealing and a sin? And Huckleberry Finn was a character with morals and a conscience.

You'd think it's pretty cut and dry and that since blacks were people they would have been considered as such, but they weren't. The point we're making is that in those times, even after they'd been freed, they were 2nd class citizens, if even that, and a lot of people still would have preferred this country go back to adopting slavery. The overwhelming majority were racist and used derrogatory terms. In the 1930's lunchings were still a common ocurrence.

Even as recent as the 1950's and early 1960's, we were in a terrible state civil rights wise. Lynchings continued until the late 1960's. The idea of fairness and equality for all ethnicites, or between men and women was a difficult concept for many. Going back to the late 1800's...civil rights? Forget about it.

So yeah Sullivan was full of **** and a brainwashed fool for his comments, but that doesn't mean he was weak of character or evil. His sentiments were shared by many at the time.

So are you saying that farm animals are human beings?

[BKM-]

So are you saying that farm animals are human beings?

God, you're one dumbass. Even if you're pretending.

[butterfly1964]

Well how is it all the white fighters from the turn of the century are garbage, yet Jack Johnson somehow manages to slip through butterfly's analysis.

At least he gives Jack Dempsey credit, which means I still have some respect for him....

Lets face it Butterfly if John Sullivan and James Jefferies and all the other white fighters fought bums how is it that Jack Johnson who fought around the same time period fought good competition....

Boxing for the most part around that time was based on toughness alone. There was next to no skill involved. Corbett came around and showed skill to overcome disadvantages, and Johnson expanded on that, using an arsenal of skill, as well as strength in boxing. This is why Johnson stands head and shoulders above any boxer that came before him.

In addition, Johnson had the unique claim of holding both colored and world heavyweight championships. This means that he fought and beat the best black and white fighters of his time. Sullivan, Corbett, Fitzsimmons, and Jeffries although they may have beaten a couple of blacks, mainly beat the high crop of white heavyweights alone.

Johnson is head-to-head better than these guys, and has the better resume as well, period.

[butterfly1964]

God, you're one dumbass. Even if you're pretending.

Before calling someone a "dumbass", maybe you should reread Achilles post in more depth. The reason why I asked that question was because of the fact that Kid compared what we think of farm animals today to what many white Americans thought of blacks 70-400 years ago. Since the view of most white Americans towards blacks have changed, I questioned since Kid made that analogy if he thought that carried over to what I suspected he would think the perception of farm animals would be 200 years from now. I didn't really think that he thought that farm animals were human beings, I just gave an example of what his post presented itself as because of the comparison.

[BKM-]

Before calling someone a "dumbass", maybe you should reread Achilles post in more depth. The reason why I asked that question was because of the fact that Kid compared what we think of farm animals today to what many white Americans thought of blacks 70-400 years ago. Since the view of most white Americans towards blacks have changed, I questioned since Kid made that analogy if he thought that carried over to what I suspected he would think the perception of farm animals would be 200 years from now. I didn't really think that he thought that farm animals were human beings, I just gave an example of what his post presented itself as because of the comparison.

Then you should have posted this in regards to his post. You wouldn't have looked like a dumbass then

[Underboss]

Somehow a guy who can fight for 76 rounds and 4 hours, bare-knuckle whether ****ty competition or not doesn't seem like he should be called a bad fighter...

Here's a good vid=

didn't he died in 1918?

[RockyMarcianofan00]

Boxing for the most part around that time was based on toughness alone. There was next to no skill involved. Corbett came around and showed skill to overcome disadvantages, and Johnson expanded on that, using an arsenal of skill, as well as strength in boxing. This is why Johnson stands head and shoulders above any boxer that came before him.

In addition, Johnson had the unique claim of holding both colored and world heavyweight championships. This means that he fought and beat the best black and white fighters of his time. Sullivan, Corbett, Fitzsimmons, and Jeffries although they may have beaten a couple of blacks, mainly beat the high crop of white heavyweights alone.

Johnson is head-to-head better than these guys, and has the better resume as well, period.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the "couple of blacks" Sullivan, Corbett, Fitzsimmons, and Jeffries beat were the best of the black fighters..I'm assuming this because seeing as how black fighters were looked down upon so fiercely it only makes sense that if a black fighter even got a crack at a white fighter he must have been pretty good....So wouldn't that mean that Sullivan, Corbett, Fitzsimmons, and Jeffries all fought the best of both leagues?

Also just because Johnson was a "better" boxer then Sullivan, Corbett, Fitzsimmons, and Jeffries that doesn't mean he was a better fighter..Its not always the boxer who wins the fight..

[butterfly1964]

Then you should have posted this in regards to his post. You wouldn't have looked like a dumbass then

Well, since you're the only one who responded to it in that way, then more than likely every one else understood what I was trying to say, which would make you the "dumbass", wouldn't it?