As a black man,I have come to the realization that I am discriminated for being black

[Beercules]

I'm sure I didn't absorb every critical detail from that summary (plus a wiki article), and heavily publicized crimes where the police simply want a perpetrator sentenced ASAP to appease the media have always sickened me.

I also don't doubt racial bias was involved. I would be insulting my own intelligence if I said their blackness wasn't an apparent factor. It always will be. If there's even a 50/50 chance that a group of other-race men came into your town and gang-****d a woman who looks just like your sister, your blood is going to boil, random citizen or veteran prosecutor, white or black.

If that group is stereotypically attached to high rates of ****/gang-**** you might have a nail in the coffin due to innate flaws in human psychology...

However...

You also can't expect me to take the emotions derived from a single case in a single region of the country and treat it as evidence of overall systematic oppression/bias/etc towards a group who remain generally very successful by global standards and still very much on the delivering end of interracial violence. I tend to stick with overall patterns and potential underlying causes.

Have you read about Ruby Ridge? A hermity/religious family moved to a small town in Idaho where a a group of white separatist families fleeing the ethnic upheaval in the rest of the country also lived. They were invited to an event but Randy Weaver only showed minor interest, was more the vanilla conspiracy type, saw some messed up stuff in Vietnam, grew to hate the US government.

The FBI illegally entrapped him by having a planted informant ask him to do them a friendly favor by sawing down their ******* barrel (instantly making him a felon). They gave him a choice between a lengthy prison sentence -OR- being forced to join the local white separatist organization as a spy, endangering the lives of his family.

He turned down both and knew the whole thing would fall apart in court but you don't just ignore a bunch of FBI/US Marshalls with helicopters and night vision goggles. They started sending armed personnel to scout his ranch for an armed arrest. When all was said and done his wife (sniped with a .308 while holding their child by the window), dog and son were killed.

Similar to the case you linked, the government eventually admitted everything they did was totally illegal, they just needed a random head on a spike to appease the media about these **** social menaces. Which head didn't really matter. They paid out a couple million dollars to the surviving members of the family, like that makes up for it.

Should I ask you to read a story like that and consider it evidence that there is overall systematic oppression of Caucasians in the developed world?

Or are these stories reasons to:

- Understand the power public/regional hysteria: NYC really did have a black crime problem and Idaho really did have white separatist compounds, so the public was ready to burn any witch with or without due process. By cheering it on and throwing some random in jail, they "did their part". My sister was accused of looking like a ********* in school after 9/11 (in a majority Hispanic district) to the point of bursting out crying and refusing to go back -- not because of systematic top-down oppression but because of reflexive animal hysteria.

- Individualism is an ideal but not a mechanic of reality. We all socially pay for the sins of people who look like us. Black guys struggle with their reputation of being ready to kill/**** you at the drop of a hat and I can assure you white men struggle every day shaking the *****/hippie reputation of their parents generation and wanting to be respected. This is not systematic, it is the tragic generational lag of human psychology.

- Understand that the government is just a bunch of guys. It isn't an effective or scientific mechanism for social justice. If the media starts making them feel like their jobs are on the line if they don't put a head on a spike, then that's what they'll do.

Great post.

[Szef]

as a fellow black man, i feel the same, but even worse.

[////]

LMAO. "Compensation"???? Did you really type that? lol. Dude.

I don't watch TV besides sports, movies, and docs...maybe a few series here and there, so I feel you. But if you didn't want to watch it, all you had to do was say so. But I have no idea how me reading a book would compensate you somehow. lol. It's not like it would give you your time back or anything.




Ok. Well then I'll take back asking you to watch the documentary.

Here's more or less a synapsis that you can read. Now you let me know why these kids had to go through this if America is so great for black folks.

I really do plead with you to read some Thomas Sowell, though.

He will be labeled a "coon" or "uncle tom" online but he is not. He is more like a simultaneous black/US nationalist who believes white "anti-racists" are mostly just depraved hooligans who fire black people out of catapults at the walls of traditional European society as a means of creating social/***ual shock, not because they care about them. Not understanding the madness of society eats away at me (OCD) so when a writer can give me epiphanies/clarity I tend to become their evangelist.

His basic thesis is that while slavery and discrimination were tragedies and major setbacks (and human history was generally tragic for everyone until very recently); they should have theoretically resulted in proportionate rebounds like Europe rebounded from the mongols/plague or China rebounded from occupation/famine. If so much human history has been unfathomable suffering, what is this secret variable that decides whether an ethnoculture will proportionately rebound? Basically, self-determination, not being trapped in a dysfunctional parent-child relationship with another group.

If the the union had dissolved and black Americans were self-governed, would their public school history curriculum consist 90% of what it's like being auctioned off to a man with a blond mustache? Would they be well acquainted with public humiliation by the age of 12? Probably not. Just like Spain's history curriculum doesn't consist 90% of teaching children how it feels to be ****d in front of your family by a sweaty ******.

Nor would behavioral standards be kept deliberately low under the guise of being "untamed and unchained". They would revert to normalcy: The most eloquent members of the group would be proportionately rewarded. He questions why black Americans often side politically against what they would do if they were self-governed, and it always leads back to a group he calls "the anointed", the academics operating the catapult.

[travestyny]

I also don't doubt racial bias was involved.

Right. That's the point. And you often talk about how it is understandable for police to have biases, though police should not have racial bias. Wouldn't that make life in America disadvantageous for black people if they have to deal with the reality of a racist police force?

Should I ask you to read a story like that and consider it evidence that there is overall systematic oppression of Caucasians in the developed world?

If you can point to it being racially motivated, then I would understand your point. I read through it quickly because I have to get ready to take care of something, but I didn't see anything there that makes it clear what happened to him was because he was white.

Meanwhile, even you said above that what happened to the Central Park 5 involved racial bias.

Or are these stories reasons to:

- Understand the power public/regional hysteria: NYC really did have a black crime problem and Idaho really did have white separatist compounds, so the public was ready to burn any witch with or without due process. By cheering it on and throwing some random in jail, they "did their part". My sister was accused of looking like a ********* in school after 9/11 (in a majority Hispanic district) to the point of bursting out crying and refusing to go back -- not because of systematic top-down oppression but because of reflexive animal hysteria.

- Individualism is an ideal but not a mechanic of reality. We all socially pay for the sins of people who look like us. Black guys struggle with their reputation of being ready to kill/**** you at the drop of a hat and I can assure you white men struggle every day shaking the *****/hippie reputation of their parents generation and wanting to be respected. This is not systematic, it is the tragic generational lag of human psychology.

- Understand that the government is just a bunch of guys. It isn't an effective or scientific mechanism for social justice. If the media starts making them feel like their jobs are on the line if they don't put a head on a spike, then that's what they'll do.

Again, you're proving the point. Your statement before was:

I firmly believe that if you can't make it as a black person in America, you can't make it anywhere on Earth as any type of person.

It flat out does not get any easier.

So how easy was it for those kids? How easy is it if, according to you, crime stats motivates a police force to operate in a racist manner?

So is life in America flat out so damn easy for Blacks if, according to you, they have do deal with a racist police force? I don't see racial bias against caucasians in your post.

[Theodore]

I'm reading this thread while listening to the Air Wolf theme. Anyone remember that show in the 80s?

[GGG Gloveking]

I'm reading this thread while listening to the Air Wolf theme. Anyone remember that show in the 80s?

It used to come on right before or right after MacGyver

[////]

Right. That's the point. And you often talk about how it is understandable for police to have biases, though police should not have racial bias. Wouldn't that make life in America disadvantageous for black people if they have to deal with the reality of a racist police force?



If you can point to it being racially motivated, then I would understand your point. I read through it quickly because I have to get ready to take care of something, but I didn't see anything there that makes it clear what happened to him was because he was white.

Meanwhile, even you said above that what happened to the Central Park 5 involved racial bias.




Again, you're proving the point. Your statement before was:





So how easy was it for those kids? How easy is it if, according to you, crime stats motivates a police force to operate in a racist manner?

So is life in America flat out so damn easy for Blacks if, according to you, they have do deal with a racist police force? I don't see racial bias against caucasians in your post.

I stand by that statement. Being American is about as easy as it gets in general and if you are a member of a "protected class" within the US then you've hit the apex of human ease-of-existence.

That's not the same as saying that anyone's life is easy on an absolute scale. Everyone you love is going to die and you are going to die. Terrible things can still happen to you, like being framed for a crime.

There is some validity to your argument about the high black crime rate against other races making life more difficult for black people by association; but not as difficult as it makes life for the people actually being victimized. You have to remember that's a double-edged sword and one side is much sharper.

But if life was a video game and you were in create-a-character mode, you would want to be American and a member of a protected class. It would be by far the easiest mode of play. It's absurd the way oppression/privilege/other terms are thrown around by one of a handful of the world's wealthiest and most pampered groups based on cherry-picked anecdote.

So you don't think things would have gone any different for Randy Weaver, a white guy who moved to a town with a white separatist compound then framed by the ATF/FBI because they needed a random informant and not enough people were moving into the area, if he was Guatamalan? Of course they would have.

But yes, correct. Just like your case, it wasn't systematic racial oppression, it was a random individual being scapegoated to satisfy organic public hysteria against people who look like him. They needed a **** ********* in shackles for the media then his family stationwagon pulled into town.

[travestyny]

I really do plead with you to read some Thomas Sowell, though.

He will be labeled a "coon" or "uncle tom" online but he is not. He is more like a simultaneous black/US nationalist who believes white "anti-racists" are mostly just depraved hooligans who fire black people out of catapults at the walls of traditional European society as a means of creating social/***ual shock, not because they care about them. Not understanding the madness of society eats away at me (OCD) so when a writer can give me epiphanies/clarity I tend to become their evangelist.

His basic thesis is that while slavery and discrimination were tragedies and major setbacks (and human history was generally tragic for everyone until very recently); they should have theoretically resulted in proportionate rebounds like Europe rebounded from the mongols/plague or China rebounded from occupation/famine. If so much human history has been unfathomable suffering, what is this secret variable that decides whether an ethnoculture will proportionately rebound? Basically, self-determination, not being trapped in a dysfunctional parent-child relationship with another group.

So what you're saying is America entrapped black people in a dysfunctional parent/child relationship?.....ok....


What some of you don't acknowledge is that the Civil Rights Era was 50 years ago.

You can look up stories about black progress and how it was thwarted. Go look up the story of Black WallStreet. Stories like that is what some of you are ignorant of.

If the the union had dissolved and black Americans were self-governed, would their public school history curriculum consist 90% of what it's like being auctioned off to a man with a blond mustache? Would they be well acquainted with public humiliation by the age of 12? Probably not. Just like Spain's history curriculum doesn't consist 90% of teaching children how it feels to be ****d in front of your family by a sweaty ******.

Nor would behavioral standards be kept deliberately low under the guise of being "untamed and unchained". They would revert to normalcy: The most eloquent members of the group would be proportionately rewarded. He questions why black Americans often side politically against what they would do if they were self-governed, and it always leads back to a group he calls "the anointed", the academics operating the catapult.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with knowing and understanding history. What is wrong is what has been done from slavery times through the civil rights era to the present, biased enforcing of laws (which you seem to acknowledge yourself) and other policies that are in fact very real and well document and also not very long ago, but should we just keep pretending it all doesn't exist?

The bottom line is that when you take into account one of the basic tenets, that all men were created equal, then the question is can the above conditions brought about by the United States be responsible for the state of Black Americans. And the answer is simply absolutely. The proof is all around you. Of course, that again depends on whether you believe all people were created equal.

If you are someone who believes that some races are superior to others, or that some races are more prone to criminality, that seems to be not only an UnAmerican view, but certainly a racist one.

[travestyny]

I stand by that statement. Being American is about as easy as it gets in general and if you are a member of a "protected class" within the US then you've hit the apex of human ease-of-existence.

That's not the same as saying that anyone's life is easy on an absolute scale. Everyone you love is going to die and you are going to die. Terrible things can still happen to you, like being framed for a crime.

There is some validity to your argument about the high black crime rate against other races making life more difficult for black people by association; but not as difficult as it makes life for the people actually being victimized. You have to remember that's a double-edged sword and one side is much sharper.

But if life was a video game and you were in create-a-character mode, you would want to be American and a member of a protected class. It would be by far the easiest mode of play. It's absurd the way oppression/privilege/other terms are thrown around by one of a handful of the world's wealthiest and most pampered groups based on cherry-picked anecdote.

So you don't think things would have gone any different for Randy Weaver, a white guy who moved to a town with a white separatist compound then framed by the ATF/FBI because they needed a random informant and not enough people were moving into the area, if he was Guatamalan? Of course they would have.

But yes, correct. Just like your case, it wasn't systematic racial oppression, it was a random individual being scapegoated to satisfy organic public hysteria against people who look like him. They needed a **** ********* in shackles for the media then his family stationwagon pulled into town.

How can you say that just like my case it wasn't systematic racial oppression when you already stated that racial bias was involved?

And how "protected" were those 14 year old boys? See the point. You're just throwing some blanket statement out there where each of those boys exists as an example to say you're wrong. Because they were in that position simply because they were Black, and we know that happens. You yourself admit as much.

[Szef]