China is no longer "playing catchup" with the West/Europe - it is passing it

[Pretty Boy32]

**Leaving troll hat outside

It's been awhile since I have made a serious thread re: economics and politics. I forget that we have a number of intelligent posters on here who I love to debate this matter on, so here it goes

A few years ago I posted that that people were underestimating how quickly China is rising. Well now, here it is 2019 and the speed and pace with which China is reshaping the world is even catching myself and many highly qualified economists off guard.

I have been working with the Chinese arm of my business since 2014, and over the past 5 years, its development has been nothing but spectacular. As a European citizen, I travel back to the China yearly, and to be perfectly honest, I no longer believe China is catching up.

I think China is SURPASSING it.

Now, not by every metric. But, by quite a few, namely; AI, green tech, mobile payments and apps, etc.

For instance, a city that I travel to once a year and speak to weekly Hangzhou, China. A city of some 7 million, it is one of the most advanced cities on earth.

Why?

1. Green tech.
Thanks to government subsidies, the auto EV industry here is EXPLODING. If you buy an electric-hybrid or 100% EV there are massive tax breaks, as well as free license plates (in this city getting one is really expensive). I would estimate about 10%-15% of the cars I see on the road are EV. Back in the States? MAYBE 1 out of every 100.

2. Mobile payments.
Cashless pay is ubiquitous in China. It's also way more convenient than carrying cash or paying by credit card everywhere you go. Sending and receiving money literally takes SECONDS. Paying for a gallon of milk, movie tickets, hell even cars simply takes you opening up WeChat or Alipay and scanning your QR code.

3. Shared bikes and cars.
This has totally revolutionized how people travel. Instead of walking or taking your car to get to the store, you can take a shared bike. They are everywhere, and best of all, extremely cheap and convenient. To use one you simply need to scan your QR code. Shared cars work the same way. It's nearly as cheap for me to rent an EV shared car to travel downtown than it is to take a government taxi.

4. AI.
Last year Hangzhou was one of the most congested cities in the world. It now ranks as one of the best cities in China based on traffic efficiency, thanks to Hangzhou's "City Brain" system that reroutes traffic and changes traffic signs based on AI. There are a number of authors now, such as Kai Fu-Lee, who believe that China will dominate AI in the future because of fewer restrictions on data collection as well as a much bigger pool to draw data from (1.4 billion people vs. 320 million).

[////]

Yes & not for any of the silly reasons you listed

[Pretty Boy32]

Yes & not for any of the silly reasons you listed

Two things:
1. Explain what is silly about my reasons
2. What in your opinion are the real reasons

3. Grow up

Thanks

[MDPopescu]

China is no longer "playing catchup" with the West/Europe - it is passing it

(...)

Pretty Boy, dear... dear...

... back in history, China already was the "biggest economy" worldwide... even without copying the "Western model"...

[Hitman Hodgson]

The things you mention in your post are true, and although China's growth has been pretty miraculous, but there's no way they'll surpass America or Europe anytime soon.

It really depends on which tier of city you go to. Yes, their major cities are some of the most advanced in the world, but outside of them much of China hasn't changed in decades and 10s of millions of people still live in relative poverty, and don't have access to basic things that we take for granted her.
Not to mention, the huge real estate bubble, and poorly built ghost cities they have.

[MDPopescu]

The things you mention in your post are true, and although China's growth has been pretty miraculous, but there's no way they'll surpass America or Europe anytime soon.

It really depends on which tier of city you go to. Yes, their major cities are some of the most advanced in the world, but outside of them much of China hasn't changed in decades and 10s of millions of people still live in relative poverty, and don't have access to basic things that we take for granted her.
Not to mention, the huge real estate bubble, and poorly built ghost cities they have.

... it isn't even like that: hundreds of millions are living in the "medieval age", tbh...

[Theodore]

The things you mention in your post are true, and although China's growth has been pretty miraculous, but there's no way they'll surpass America or Europe anytime soon.

It really depends on which tier of city you go to. Yes, their major cities are some of the most advanced in the world, but outside of them much of China hasn't changed in decades and 10s of millions of people still live in relative poverty, and don't have access to basic things that we take for granted her.
Not to mention, the huge real estate bubble, and poorly built ghost cities they have.

This is pretty much true. The estimated numbers are that 400-500 million out of 1.4 billion are considered middle class by western standards, the rest are living in abject poverty. They're still decades behind the West in terms of infrastructure and development as a whole.

[D4thincarnation]

China will surpass America economically in 10 years time and military in 30-40 years time.

They are advancing far faster than America or Europe.

They are putting in infrastructure at an alarming rate. They build entire cities in 6 months.

They are producing more and more billionaires and every year they lift millions out of poverty. Their super rich consumer a lot and are a growing market for a lot of western producers

They have their population under control, their trade is booming booming and booming.

They are investing in Africa and other places.

They are putting in new infrastructure to connect the country, new transport systems. They aim to increase their coal power by 25% in the next 10 years which is more than America produces in total.

By the end of this century China will be the world no1 super power.

[Mindgames]

China is becoming a frightening place, for ordinary people. Even Orwell couldn't have envisaged a state more oppressive in its control of its citizens. Even Soros can see it. Bad stuff coming imo.

[Pretty Boy32]

China will surpass America economically in 10 years time and military in 30-40 years time.

They are advancing far faster than America or Europe.

They are putting in infrastructure at an alarming rate. They build entire cities in 6 months.

They are producing more and more billionaires and every year they lift millions out of poverty. Their super rich consumer a lot and are a growing market for a lot of western producers

They have their population under control, their trade is booming booming and booming.

They are investing in Africa and other places.

They are putting in new infrastructure to connect the country, new transport systems. They aim to increase their coal power by 25% in the next 10 years which is more than America produces in total.

By the end of this century China will be the world no1 super power.

I completely agree with you on this. One of the fundamental reasons China will surpass the US is because of the structure of their government. The US has been corrupted and ransacked, and is divided to an unprecedented level illustrated by the recent government shutdown. I'm sure the Chinese point to things like the shutdown and a celebrity leader like ***** as typical failures of democracy. The Chinese government are authoritarian and control everything from the top-down. They don't get distracted by corporations and their lobby armies trying to remain relevant. They do what they need to do to become a global superpower in a few decades (their plan is for it to happen by 2050).

While the US can't even agree on global warming (it's highly politicized due to government corruption and usurpation by corporate power), China is heavily investing in renewable energy sources and is the global leader by more than double the second place country. They are investing in their Naval power and air superiority, as well as vying for control of outer space ('GPS Wars').

The US is much better for rights, liberties and freedoms but the government itself isn't productive.