Omicron now

[Dakuwaqa]

Pretty disrespectful to compare covid to cancer bro, many cancers have death rates over 50%, cover's death rate is .1%, completly different thing.

Covid has a much higher death rate amongst the elderly and vulnerable. The same people who are most likely to get cancer.

I’m not comparing to cancer. I’m highlighting the absurdity of basing an argument on whether you personally know of someone who’s died.

[Kris Silver]

Some call-outs from reading through this thread which jeez has picked up a serious number of posts.

Firstly, big props to Citizen Coba, broadly aligned with your responses and sentiments, which seems rational and despite accusations to the contrary, are not pertaining to any solid anti vax, anti right, anti left, anti pharma ideology. A gaping issue with a lot of posters attacking coba and more reasonable posts seem to lack a great deal of being able to have nuanced discussion on what are, complex matters with no all right or wrong answers (despite some arrogant posters that think they know best for the world).

My house mate/tenant is an anti vaxer and I've had a few discussions with him on this topic. He's a good and intelligent guy, and even whilst limiting discussions to protect the friendship, it becomes obvious that after a few questions posed, there's not many clear backed up answers as to why he's anti vax.

-Why can they come up with vaccines so fast? Because tech and science is progressing all the time, and global large health issues bring together a lot of funding, public sector, private sector, volunteers and more to cooperate and expedite solutions. Given they are produced in a quarter or less of the time, yes they'll be drawbacks, but the benefits of getting protections out there to the masses and demonstrably from numbers across the world, lowering death numbers, is paramount.

-Why are there so many new ones and boosters? See point 1, they were expedited so can be improved as with all medicines and vaccines. Viruses mutate and change, there's a yearly flu jab. If there was a hyper infectious more dangerous flu killing significant amounts of people, there's be a top up flu vaccine for certain strains. Not to mention people lose immunity over time and things change, nothing it completely predictable or finite. It's a balance, and you seem to want to throw the baby out with the bath water when in reality countries are having to find a middle ground for all (no easy feat). Also, yes there's examples of vaccines failing here and there, of course there is, occurrence of something to a small ratio, is not evidence it should be abandoned in entirety, that is, ******.

-We can't trust Government as they are ripping us off. Okay well unfortunately that simply isn't rational talk, its akin to defunding the police. Distrust, ignore and shut out governments, public sectors and services because of some deep conspiratorial (some bad stuff happens so literally trust nothing) is complete insanity.

-We can't trust private firms and pharma. Well guess we'll have no medicines or vaccines period, too then shall we?

The problem is with a lot of rebellious posters on social media and boards etc. is people think they know best, but broken down most times just criticise huge swatches of people, services, topics, countries, sectors and companies with one brush as if they can all go, are all bad, and they know better. When in reality just as with people, there's good and bad eggs. You don't shut out the vast majority or all of something just because of yes, some bad eggs. Not to mention, where are the solutions, what are the proposals to the Government, pharma companies, science organisations, countries leaders, public citizens, the hundreds of thousands of families that have lost people to this disease, and those whom are sceptical and resentful to protections?

You hear very little there, and very little with any coherent respectable backed up, factual data. Jeez imagine if some of these people trialled their "I know better" approach on an island of 50k people. There'd go in being confident there'd run the show better than anyone else, but sure as anything sht would go bad real quick, and there'd leave the wheel and say "that's not how that was supposed to go, it wasn't me".

[Citizen Koba]

It's nice to see when other people question what's going on how you treat them. It shows it's not just me you're trying to shout down.

Guess we're all on the same page now.

Why would you imagine it's just about you? You ain't that special man.

Nah, I been perfectly clear my aim is to simply examine the validity of the information that's spread on here and demonstrate when false claims and misinformation is spread. At the same time I ain't without my own ego and although I try to keep conversation civil I ain't just gonna let folk think they can get personal withoiut giving it back some.

Generally I just mirror the tone of whoever I'm talking with though... treat me with courtesy and you'll get it back, be a **** and you'll get that back too. Same as I do IRL more or less.

[Madison Boxing]

Scientists find that vaccine can act like a magnet in the blood causing body to attack itself. this is likely the cause of the 73 people who died after having the vaccine in the UK.now looking at ways to tweak the vaccine to stop this. i thought they said the vaccine had been extensively tested and was safe but now they need to change it? Dr Raj and the other celebrities on TV said it was completely safe, tell that to the families of those who died!!!! some of them were young too!!!!!!

[Kris Silver]

Scientists find that vaccine can act like a magnet in the blood causing body to attack itself. this is likely the cause of the 73 people who died after having the vaccine in the UK.now looking at ways to tweak the vaccine to stop this. i thought they said the vaccine had been extensively tested and was safe but now they need to change it? Dr Raj and the other celebrities on TV said it was completely safe, tell that to the families of those who died!!!! some of them were young too!!!!!!

There's 4 broader 'types' of vaccines in terms of there method, and at least a dozen main vaccine producers on a large scale.

Astra Zenica is well over 1 billion doses released.

In terms of the bloodcot issue for an extreme minority, it was found to only affect a very small minority of those under 40.

From over a billion doses only a hundred odd have died from that issue.

I'll let you do some maths and ratio's as to the 0.0001% or whatever fail rate that is, versus the thousands upon thousands of lives saved, demonstrably from data.

But yes, 1 example of an issue with a medicine in a very small minority, means they should all be pulled and halted.

Chemotherapy fails at a vastly larger rate at saving people from cancer, so all people with cancer should not get chemotherapy either. That's how this anti health remedies logic doesn't work and affects lives.

[Madison Boxing]

More good news from "crazy mandown"
Who's the source? Oh just more right wing BS right? Nope!


Mumps on the rise in vaxxed.


Experts aren’t sure why vaccinated people get mumps, but multiple factors appear to be affecting immunity in vaccinated people, including a lack of prior exposure to the virus, waning immunity and the circulation of genotypes the vaccine doesn’t contain.

there were 2 heart attacks in professional football matches in UK yesterday and a professional female footballer died suddenly too last week.all the top comments saying that this is due to vaccine, i dont know if theres been a statistical increase or what but did see a study saying it inflames the heart tissue and there seems to be a lot of athletes dropping down now.

[Madison Boxing]

There's 4 broader 'types' of vaccines in terms of there method, and at least a dozen main vaccine producers on a large scale.

Astra Zenica is well over 1 billion doses released.

In terms of the bloodcot issue for an extreme minority, it was found to only affect a very small minority of those under 40.

From over a billion doses only a hundred odd have died from that issue.

I'll let you do some maths and ratio's as to the 0.0001% or whatever fail rate that is, versus the thousands upon thousands of lives saved, demonstrably from data.

But yes, 1 example of an issue with a medicine in a very small minority, means they should all be pulled and halted, because Madison boxing infers it so.

Chemotherapy fails at a vastly larger rate at saving people from cancer, so all people with cancer should not get chemotherapy either. That's how this anti health remedies logic doesn't work and affects lives.

there were young healthy people who wouldnt have died from covid. they stepped in to them vaccine centres, pressured by government and scientists who told them it was safe and then they died.

[Kris Silver]

there were young healthy people who wouldnt have died from covid. they stepped in to them vaccine centres, pressured by government and scientists who told them it was safe and then they died.

That's the extent of challenging each of those points, in my post? Honestly the silence on them, speaks volumes in itself.

Onto your new comment and 'look at this' here then, basically just playing the emotional card of innocent people have died from a vaccine.

Yes, that's terrible. Who said any medicine is 100% effective, safe, has no side affects and a minority of unfortunate deaths?

It's an extremely small ratio, to the extent many many many more times, thousands times more, people have NOT died, as a result.

Hundreds upon thousands of people died when there were no vaccines, where's the emotional card for them? Now vastly more are not dying from it, rather than sympathise with the many dead from covid, celebrating the vastly lesser deaths, you just want to point out an extreme minority of those yes, unfortunately dying from the vaccine.

It would be laughable in it's ridiculously poor logic, if it wasn't on a topic such as this.

[Madison Boxing]

That's the extent of challenging each of those points, in my post? Honestly the silence on them, speaks volumes in itself.

Onto your new comment and 'look at this' here then, basically just playing the emotional card of innocent people have died from a vaccine.

Yes, that's terrible. Who said any medicine is 100% effective, safe, has no side affects and a minority of unfortunate deaths?

It's an extremely small ratio, to the extent many many many more times, thousands times more, people have NOT died, as a result.

Hundreds upon thousands of people died when there were no vaccines, where's the emotional card for them? Now vastly more are not dying from it, rather than sympathise with the many dead from covid, celebrating the vastly lesser deaths, you just want to point out an extreme minority of those yes, unfortunately dying from the vaccine.

It would be laughable in it's ridiculously poor logic, if it wasn't on a topic such as this.

Is not poor logic, theres lots of people who said that family members had strokes etc soon after the vaccines so number is likely higher.and you do realise they banned that vaccine in some countries, you are patronising me but countries were so sure it was safe that they ended up banning it. fact is these companies are still learning about the effects of these vaccines which is why they made countries sign no liability contracts, they havent got a damn clue what it does in long term just as they didnt know about the blood clots, they rushed it out to get the money which is why the vaccines all seemed to come out around same time because if they waited too long it was money down the drain. that vaccine that Dr Raj smiled and told me on TV was so safe a few months down the line has killed at least 70 people and now the damn company are saying they need to change it. as man down has said, if people want it then so be it, but dont attack people who dont want to take the risk when they know the virus wont do a damn thing to them and many have already had it and barely got a runny nose. if people want the full 5 doses that goverment have ordered and think its necessary then so be it

[Kris Silver]

Is not poor logic, theres lots of people who said that family members had strokes etc soon after the vaccines so number is likely higher.and you do realise they banned that vaccine in some countries, you are patronising me but countries were so sure it was safe that they ended up banning it. fact is these companies are still learning about the effects of these vaccines which is why they made countries sign no liability contracts, they havent got a damn clue what it does in long term just as they didnt know about the blood clots, they rushed it out to get the money which is why the vaccines all seemed to come out around same time because if they waited too long it was money down the drain. that vaccine that Dr Raj smiled and told me on TV was so safe a few months down the line has killed at least 70 people and now the damn company are saying they need to change it. as man down has said, if people want it then so be it, but dont attack people who dont want to take the risk when they know the virus wont do a damn thing to them and many have already had it and barely got a runny nose. if people want the full 5 doses that goverment have ordered and think its necessary then so be it

It's profoundly poor logic, not to mention very close minded, weak critical thinking. When talking about billions of something, and you have the infantile laughable audacity to argue there's "lot's" of people whom have had strokes and deaths as such. Madison boxing says there's lots of something, that's his evidence, so shut down the billions of something across over a hundred countries, because someone says hey there's lots of bad examples. Good grief. Go to a bio science convention with that, you'll get on great.

This is the point, it ISN'T lots, it's an extremely, extremely small minority. And if you'd like to coherently argue otherwise, with capitalised beginning of sentences and being more specific then "lots" then the onus is on you to do that, and it be held up against all the vastly widely available data and evidence around the world surrounding success/failure rates of vaccines.

Yes "some" countries banned a vaccine, that happens sometimes, some countries approve a drug others don't. Surely that's evidence that it is being regulated albeit not perfectly, and differently with free choice across countries. The failure numbers are still widely open and available where it continues to be used.

I've not said you should be mandated to get the vaccine, of course the reason this is a thorny issue is because the vaccines make it less likely you'll catch it, less likely to suffer badly from it if you do, and much less likely to be able to transfer it to OTHER people. But, if you insist you know better than the vast majority of the worlds experts in these various fields and that this doesn't apply to you, so be it. But it get's some argument particularly because of the last point. It does affect other people.