Omicron now

[Citizen Koba]

its become clear they didnt properly investigate the jab before releasing it. every damn week i read a new report 'new side effect shown'. how can something have been deemed safe yet week by week we learn more things about it? they shouldnt have released the jab until they knew more about it. now theyve gone down the line of saying the side effects are placebo and 'all in peoples head', the only thing in peoples heads after the jabs were the blood clots that killed them.

You can't man. You can never uncover every side effect of a vaccine through trials because most of these are the kinda conditions which only crop up one in a few hundred thousands or even one in millions of vaccinations, and because they also occur from other causes in unvaccinated populations they don't show up until you've given out literally tens or hundreds of millions of vaccinations.

At the end of the day you can perform trial after trial but when your trials start getting into the kinds of numbers required to uncover these rare side effects you essentially already had a de-facto rollout. And in the case of a rapidly spreading infectious disease outbreak it becomes necessary to make the call. Effectively all you can ever do is test it well enough - within the limits of practicability - to demonstrate that the vaccine is overwhelmingly safer than the disease it's meant to cure and then you roll the dice....

That's the whole purpose of vaccine surveillance systems man. To try to catch these kinds of effects that don't become apparent untill you've vaccinated millions. In effect the vaccine surveillance systems are the ongoing trial... that's the only practical way you can uncover these rare effects.

End of the day none of the rare side effects found bring the risks of vaccination close to the risks from getting COVID except in the under 18s (and even then the balance favours vaccination except where case rates are very low). As I said previously though the whole risk/ reward thing is gonna have to be reassessed somewht in the light of Omicron - and of course in the light of the almost total coverage of either vaccination or prior infection (reckoned at about 97% in the UK) that we got after 2 years of this crap.

[Citizen Koba]

the doctor used his clinical reasoning and felt that medication and set of vitamins would protect against covid, the patients didnt die. i didnt go to medical school but i thought that would be considered a successful outcome.

All four patients had an extremely high chance of surviving and making complete recoveries even if the doctor had done nothing at all. Just as Joe Rogan did FWIW.

What he in fact did was give them higher than recommended doses of drugs which had not been shown to cure or even improve outcomes from COVID but which are known to have potential side effects of their own particularly in high doses.

[Madison Boxing]

What's wrong with people is some of them are either too ****** or stubborn to get vaccinated. Being vaccinated from diseases than can be fatal if caught is a prerequisite for a transplant. It's been like that and enforced for a long time. Getting a heart is not like getting a cast put on a broken arm. The materials to make a cast is readily available. Hearts aren't. People that are fully vaccinated have less chance of dying because of post surgery infections.

some people have good reasons why they dont want a needle put in them

[Citizen Koba]

most people have had covid now, we are 2 years down the line. no need to stick these jabs in people who have already had it and **** their hearts up any more. israel want a 4th round done for everyone now!!!!

Well I never particularly thought there should be mandates anyway (with the exception of those at the highest likelihood of spreading it to the vulnerable) and always agreed that actually catching COVID should be considered effectively the same as getting vaccinated for the puposes of vaccine requirements and any travel / access restrictions. As for the heart stuff... well COVID is shown to do more damage to your heart in more different ways than vaccination so I ain't quite sure of your point.

What Israel chooses to do and her people choose to accept is their business I reckon.... not sure that I'd particularly see the need but then I also ain't ***ish and ain't an Israeli citizen, and I think that perhaps they may have a much higher aversion to any of their relatively small population dying than other countries. I mean I is kinda suppossed to be the ark of the ***ish people ain't it, like their insurance against another holocaust. Maybe that gives em a different perspective on risk mangement?

:Lemme ask you though, given what you know of the history of the ***ish people and the ***ish state you really telling me you think they'd be taking this path of they thought the vaccines were dangerous?

[Madison Boxing]

"MONDAY, Jan. 24, 2022 (HealthDay News) -- Misinformation about COVID-19 abounds, and people with are more likely than others to fall for it, a new study finds.

"One of the notable things about is that it can cause people to see the world differently — sort of the opposite of rose-colored glasses. That is, for some depressed people, the world appears as a particularly dark and dangerous place," said lead author Dr. Roy Perlis. He's associate chief of research in the department at Massachusetts General Hospital in Boston."

what a load of ****e

[TonyGe]

some people have good reasons why they dont want a needle put in them

Well then they should speak up because I haven't heard or read any so far.

[TonyGe]

Some people claim antivaxxers don't make **** up.

[Madison Boxing]

Well then they should speak up because I haven't heard or read any so far.

some people got strong phobias of needles that they cant get over, isnt as simple as just telling them to get on with it

[Dakuwaqa]

Well I never particularly thought there should be mandates anyway (with the exception of those at the highest likelihood of spreading it to the vulnerable) and always agreed that actually catching COVID should be considered effectively the same as getting vaccinated for the puposes of vaccine requirements and any travel / access restrictions. As for the heart stuff... well COVID is shown to do more damage to your heart in more different ways than vaccination so I ain't quite sure of your point.

What Israel chooses to do and her people choose to accept is their business I reckon.... not sure that I'd particularly see the need but then I also ain't ***ish and ain't an Israeli citizen, and I think that perhaps they may have a much higher aversion to any of their relatively small population dying than other countries. I mean I is kinda suppossed to be the ark of the ***ish people ain't it, like their insurance against another holocaust. Maybe that gives em a different perspective on risk mangement?

:Lemme ask you though, given what you know of the history of the ***ish people and the ***ish state you really telling me you think they'd be taking this path of they thought the vaccines were dangerous?

If they had any su****ion they were dangerous they’d certainly not keep the from the ************ like they did early on in the pandemic.

[Madison Boxing]

Well I never particularly thought there should be mandates anyway (with the exception of those at the highest likelihood of spreading it to the vulnerable) and always agreed that actually catching COVID should be considered effectively the same as getting vaccinated for the puposes of vaccine requirements and any travel / access restrictions. As for the heart stuff... well COVID is shown to do more damage to your heart in more different ways than vaccination so I ain't quite sure of your point.

What Israel chooses to do and her people choose to accept is their business I reckon.... not sure that I'd particularly see the need but then I also ain't ***ish and ain't an Israeli citizen, and I think that perhaps they may have a much higher aversion to any of their relatively small population dying than other countries. I mean I is kinda suppossed to be the ark of the ***ish people ain't it, like their insurance against another holocaust. Maybe that gives em a different perspective on risk mangement?

:Lemme ask you though, given what you know of the history of the ***ish people and the ***ish state you really telling me you think they'd be taking this path of they thought the vaccines were dangerous?

i dont know anything about israel but i know a con when i see it, how can a vaccine need 4 ****ing doses lol, and they keep saying the next one gives more protection than the last, where does this type of thing end, the 6th gives you more protection than the 5th, the 8th turns you into a super human, the 13th gives you the power to turn water into wine etc, this whole thing has descended into a farce