Greater fighter: Fury or Andre Ward?

[PRINCEKOOL]

Andre Ward.

His whole body of work is greater, plus he did beat fighters such as Carl Froch at their peak 'Ward was also a better champion and defended his belts'.

[STREET CLEANER]

Wlad is the best guy on either resume, let's not even go there. Ward's resume is good, but so is Fury's now.

It's just very top heavy.

AJ's fight Wlad came out of retirement. It was a good fight especially AJ with so little fights. At HW Fury has the better two wins than anybody now. Clear wins

[billeau2]

That's the first time I've heard that Homecourt is to no advantage.

Ward cleaned out the most pointless division in Boxing. He then received an indefensible "victory" over Kovalev.

I agree Kovalev had gone off the tracks between fights and very likely would've been beaten had Ward not fouled. But the point is Ward clearly resorted to fouling to win.

Soooo how can you say there's no comparison to be made?

In heavyweight boxing the threat is different. Your dealing with the possibility that a single punch will take you out. A lot of defense can involve how you deal with being punched. A classic example is the Ron Lyle George Foreman fight: The assumption is that both guys had poor defense... I am a contrarian on this one. You can see Lyle boxing well. Suddenly you see the proverbial lightbulb go off in a cartoon bubble for both guys: They decide the way they are going to win this fight is to KO the other guy. They set out to do just that... You can see Lyle rolling with Foreman's shots to deliver his own shots... You can see George use his weight and try to turn Lyle.

Both men understood that they could win that fight by aggressively attacking the other man, which is what they both decided to do, and they were correct. You would never see a middle weight have the same concerns. Their concern would not be that one punch would KO the opponent, not generally... There are exceptions to this...Which is why power is such a precious commodity in the lower divisions.

When we see a fighter like Gatti, Or Lamotta, the assumption that they simply take punches is wrong. They have some latitude in how they slide with punches...latitude that a heavyweight does not have.

I just think that defensive considerations are different. Fury got tagged in the first round of that last fight...He told everybody. You cannot slide off a Deontay Wilder punch. Guys like Jimmy Young who found ways to do this sliding are very rare. Heres another example: Archie Moore, who had the shoulder Roll defense could not allow Marciano's punches to slide...he was Kayoed eventually.

There are exceptions to this understanding: Julian Jackson for example is one of the hardest punchers...And he is a middle weight.

Regarding Warde's competition. he fought tough guys through and through and before the tournament where he easily beat all commers, MANY of those fighters were being touted as potentially great. Look it up. Ward made it look easy. Ward has a problem that Lennox Lewis had: When guys like Shannon Briggs fought Lewis they were supposed to be "great." But when Lewis handled them and pretty much stopped their progression, these so called great fighters became not so great.

Ward fought Kovalev in similar fashion. and ditto for guys like Froch and Mikhel.

[BirdSong]

Rusty it has been proven time and time again, home court is no advantage in boxing.

LOL i dont lol at much online but that one got me, dude any other country in the world and ward drops the first kov fight, its not even up for discussion

home court exists in EVERY sport and its as real as covid19

u trying to tell me refs dont help a side home fighters, nor judges in scoring, u must be CRAZY to say that

[billeau2]

LOL i dont lol at much online but that one got me, dude any other country in the world and ward drops the first kov fight, its not even up for discussion

home court exists in EVERY sport and its as real as covid19

u trying to tell me refs dont help a side home fighters, nor judges in scoring, u must be CRAZY to say that

Nope not saying anything about the refs. Talking about home court advantage, fan wise. My point is that international fights happen in Las Vegas all the time, and Oakland is an hour flight away.

I understand the confusion so I will also address the point about the refs. If a fighter does not want to fight internationally that is a career decision. It has a lot to do with how the contracts are made, etc. I would look at those issues as they come up per a fight... I would do this because a lot goes into the fighter's status versus the challenger, etc and every contract is different.

My point is we have international fights take place all the time in Vegas, the Garden, etc and for a fighter to choose to have the event in Oakland instead of Vegas...where Oakland gets the revenue, where the businesses in Oakland benefit...where Oakland is repped to the people that follow the sport in Oakland... Is a nice gesture. The way the refs are chosen for this can follow similar form as it does in Las Vegas.

Let me add something: Ottke fought in Germany and for whatever reason, appeared to have German refs that interfered with his opponents. I don't know how he got away with this... But Ward's fights have internationally known refs, the same refs that do fights all over the globe.

[billeau2]

Did you even watch that fight?

Why are you so offended people think Fury beat better fighters than Ward?

I wish this question was asked perpetually when statements like the above are made. Its nothing against New England either, whom I am fond of as a poster... Its a damn good question and one gets the feeling that if people did so, they would not often post certain things.

[BirdSong]

But Ward's fights have internationally known refs, the same refs that do fights all over the globe.

yeah like kenny bayless

[Rusty Tromboni]

In heavyweight boxing the threat is different. Your dealing with the possibility that a single punch will take you out. A lot of defense can involve how you deal with being punched. A classic example is the Ron Lyle George Foreman fight: The assumption is that both guys had poor defense... I am a contrarian on this one. You can see Lyle boxing well. Suddenly you see the proverbial lightbulb go off in a cartoon bubble for both guys: They decide the way they are going to win this fight is to KO the other guy. They set out to do just that... You can see Lyle rolling with Foreman's shots to deliver his own shots... You can see George use his weight and try to turn Lyle.

Both men understood that they could win that fight by aggressively attacking the other man, which is what they both decided to do, and they were correct. You would never see a middle weight have the same concerns. Their concern would not be that one punch would KO the opponent, not generally... There are exceptions to this...Which is why power is such a precious commodity in the lower divisions.

When we see a fighter like Gatti, Or Lamotta, the assumption that they simply take punches is wrong. They have some latitude in how they slide with punches...latitude that a heavyweight does not have.

I just think that defensive considerations are different. Fury got tagged in the first round of that last fight...He told everybody. You cannot slide off a Deontay Wilder punch. Guys like Jimmy Young who found ways to do this sliding are very rare. Heres another example: Archie Moore, who had the shoulder Roll defense could not allow Marciano's punches to slide...he was Kayoed eventually.

There are exceptions to this understanding: Julian Jackson for example is one of the hardest punchers...And he is a middle weight.

Regarding Warde's competition. he fought tough guys through and through and before the tournament where he easily beat all commers, MANY of those fighters were being touted as potentially great. Look it up. Ward made it look easy. Ward has a problem that Lennox Lewis had: When guys like Shannon Briggs fought Lewis they were supposed to be "great." But when Lewis handled them and pretty much stopped their progression, these so called great fighters became not so great.

Ward fought Kovalev in similar fashion. and ditto for guys like Froch and Mikhel.

Great point that last one.

But i do think it's reflective of modern marketing.

I mean if you watch the commercials, you'd believe Mc Donald's serves real food

[hugh grant]

I think fury is more unique so is the greater fighter. Ward is a bit generic, slick American seen them all before.
When you seem a 19 stone man with footwork and moves like fury?

[jmrf4435]

LOL i dont lol at much online but that one got me, dude any other country in the world and ward drops the first kov fight, its not even up for discussion

home court exists in EVERY sport and its as real as covid19

u trying to tell me refs dont help a side home fighters, nor judges in scoring, u must be CRAZY to say that

I like ward but his hardcore fans are delusional of the fact ward got his ass beat and lost that fight...