Comments Thread For: Wilder To Fury: You Are No Champion, Cut That Bull**** Out!

[OldTerry]

He lost to Fury.

Like i say, Fury is the true WBC champion. Wilder is a fake champion who had to rely on corrupt PBC judges to keep his fake belt.

I don't recall Wilder losing to Fury. The "Official" decision from the "Official" judges was that the fight ended in a draw. Their decision is all that really counts. If I had been a judge I would (all things considered, including knockdowns) have given the decision to Wilder. After all Fury only landed an average of one punch per round more than Wilder. Also the only excitement in the fight was generated by the aggression of Wilder.

[Yacontya]

That list is bull****.


Fury's still lineal in my book though. Just pointing out that's a bull**** list derived from bull****, has nothing to do with traditions lineal claims to reflect.



I don't see why people care so much whether or not they acknowledge Fury's claim. It's the worst title of all time. The WBC, WBA, IBF, and WBO's corruption has nothing on lineal. Not even close.

He can have that, I don't see why I'd give a ****. His claim is a bit shaky, but, so is everyone's post Johnson.

Sully through Marciano would ask what the **** you're talking about if you called them lineal.

the 70s reimagining of Sully's title doesn't actually reflect **** from Sully's era.

What the **** is it then? A pretend title that's meant to reflect the bygone era but has not ever in practice reflected said era.

So, to me, it goes WBC or WBA on top, those the oldest roots and first bodies. IBF and WBO next, they're just WBA spinoffs but the WBA was powerful enough for spinoff to be legit as ****. Then lineal, then **** like the IBO.

Purely by title:

Ruiz
Wilder
Fury



*****es crying because they think punch count wins fights doesn't mean a thing to me. Pretend wins for a pretend champion seems fitting. Fury beat Wilder like Pac beat Horn...It didn't happen, but, Fury fans being such *****es they like to pretend. Like the tinkerbells they are, they play tea party with Fury's career; pretend.

question: do you believe fury to be lineal champ when he didn’t beat gene tunney? Yes sounds ****** but lineal status many claim is to beat the man who beat the man etc etc. Do you believe there should be special circumstances when a lineal title holder retires, gets stripped, vacated or else? OR do you only think it should be retirement because that seems fitting to your and fury’s claim.
Oh, one other thing, the bullchit list of champions IS the list of champions so, other than belts being invented, new bodies etc what’s different about who beat who?

[ChickenTikka]

I don't recall Wilder losing to Fury. The "Official" decision from the "Official" judges was that the fight ended in a draw. Their decision is all that really counts. If I had been a judge I would (all things considered, including knockdowns) have given the decision to Wilder. After all Fury only landed an average of one punch per round more than Wilder. Also the only excitement in the fight was generated by the aggression of Wilder.

Please don't ever try to be a boxing Judge. We already have enough clowns as judges

[Old Crow]

I'm undecided whether I'd rather see Fury dominate and brutally ko wilder OR see him completely dominate,outbox,outclass and have the blowhard quit on his stool.Wilder wouldn't even crack the top ten of the
70s,80s,90s Heavyweights.I can see James Broad,James Tillis,Tony Tubbs,Gerry Cooney,Tommy Morrison and a host of others shut him down and/or out.The shock is seeing Mark Breland and Shelly Finkel backing the clown.Cooney,Morrison,Ruddock,Bonecrusher,Bruno,ar e just a few that would have had him in a crumpled heap IF he had the courage to face them.Notice I didn't bother to mention the upper echelon.

[OldTerry]

Why didn't the WWE want Wilder? Could it be that he's thick as **** and struggles to speak English?

Who says they didn't want him? After all professional wrestling is basically a lot of foolishness which Fury and Wilder are both good at.

[THEFRESHBRAWLER]

The judges know he lost too. At least the right man won in the Joshua fight, better than seeing robberies don't you think?

Wilder Fury wasn’t a robbery he spent to much time dancing playing around and sticking his tongue out. The judges don’t like that.

[OldTerry]

Please don't ever try to be a boxing Judge. We already have enough clowns as judges

I spoke truth so how does that make me a clown? If you have a different opinion than I do then provide a logical explanation rather than using an ad hominin attack.

[soul_survivor]

Those same people who argued with me that Fury was lineal while I told them he wasn't....now they are jumping on this thread and making fun of the so called lineal title hahaha

[Marvlus Marv]

These bums can say what they want when we ALL know that the new, hungry, rejuvenated Pricey is 'The Man'. After Chisora gets put to sleep you'll see these big mouthed chumps go all quiet. #ThePriceIsRight

[Marchegiano]

question: do you believe fury to be lineal champ when he didn’t beat gene tunney? Yes sounds ****** but lineal status many claim is to beat the man who beat the man etc etc. Do you believe there should be special circumstances when a lineal title holder retires, gets stripped, vacated or else? OR do you only think it should be retirement because that seems fitting to your and fury’s claim.
Oh, one other thing, the bullchit list of champions IS the list of champions so, other than belts being invented, new bodies etc what’s different about who beat who?

Well, That's a ****load. I think you should peek this post:

That touches on what I was *****ing about.

In Marciano's era there is no such thing as lineal. So, you have a choice for how you handle his vacancy.

Do you:

A.) Look back to a time when sanctioning bodies did not exist for how they handled the crowning of the next champion?

B.) Look forward to Ali's era when the term was actually coined?

Because how Corbett, Jeffries, and the bare knuckle champions like Jem Ward handled their retirement and return to the sport, without loss, is very, very different from how Ali's return is regarded.

The truth, the only real truth, is before sanctioning bodies the HW champion controlled boxing. That's why Broughton wrote the first rules, Spring and Jackson amended them, Mace and Sully changed them to Queensberry. There's a lot more to that ye olde control the HW champ had then just rules.

When a pre-sanctioning body champion retired he picked the men who would fight for his title, the man who won was champion unless the original champion objected or returned to boxing.

Post sanctioning body you already know all about. The bodies handle ranking and name the contenders within them.

There is no real lineal one and two. There is pre lineal, simply champion, era best active fighters, plural, but no one and two. One and two are sanctioning body things.

Many thought Fitzs was best after Corbett retired. Others though Maher. and still some O'Donnell, Corbett's sparring partner and Jack Johnson's trainer for the Ketchel fight.

Corbett pick O'Donnell and Maher, Maher wins, Maher is champion.

Maher loses to Fitzs, Fitzs is champion.

Fitzs loses to Sharkey, Sharkey is champion.

Corbett returns to boxing, Corbett, being unbeaten, is champion, Maher, Fitzs, and Sharkey are stricken from the record, Fitzs beats Corbett, Fitzs rejoins the lineage of champion.

But, let's be clear, that's old, traditional, and not what happened in Ali's era.

Ali is champion. Ali is suspended Frazier is champion, Frazier loses to Foreman, Foreman is champion, Foreman lose to Ali, Ali is champion again. Ali, apparently, does not have the power Corbett had.

Jim Jeffries also retired unbeaten and elected Jack Root and Marvin Hart for his title. Hart won, Hart's a champ. When Jeffries returned he too was called the true champion, he lost, Jack's reign goes unstriken. To be fair, the lineage born of the Maher reign stayed until Jeffries whooped Sharkey too. When Sharkey lost is when Maher, Fitzs, Sharkey, lose reigns. Which is why I call that list just bull****.

Anyway, my point is there is consistency in the history before sanctioning bodies. I can take it all the way back to Figg. In that time there's eleven unbeaten HW champions and more who retired as champion. I know that history very well

However, post Ali lineal is a hoshposh of fan feelings and misconceptions. Take for example the one and two theory. Where the **** did that come from? Deaf Burke, I can assure you, knows nothing about ranking. It's a sanctioning body thing being plugged into a title that's meant to reflect pre sanctioning body eras.

New lineages? Where did this come from? If you told Jeffries he wasn't passing his crown he was starting a new lineage Jeffries would call you an oddball.

So, how is there a lineal champion after Marciano indeed. There's two options, neither of them right, neither better than the other, but both will continue a lineage for you.

I feel like this post answers your questions. It would be difficult for me to shorten it by much.