Comments Thread For: Wilder To Fury: You Are No Champion, Cut That Bull**** Out!

[VislorTurlough]

we need to see this rematch. With Joshua thoroughly beaten, wilder-Fury 2 is for the clear division #1

[Idunnoshet]

That list is bull****.


Fury's still lineal in my book though. Just pointing out that's a bull**** list derived from bull****, has nothing to do with traditions lineal claims to reflect.



I don't see why people care so much whether or not they acknowledge Fury's claim. It's the worst title of all time. The WBC, WBC, IBF, and WBO's corruption has nothing on lineal. Not even close.

He can have that, I don't see why I'd give a ****. His claim is a bit shakey, but, so is everyone's post Johnson.

Sully through Marciano would ask what the **** you're talking about if you called them lineal.

the 70s reimagining of Sully's title doesn't actually reflect **** from Sully's era.

What the **** is it then? A pretend title that's meant to reflect the bygone era but has not ever in practice reflected said era.

So, to me, it goes WBC or WBA on top, those the oldest roots and first bodies. IBF and WBO next, they're just WBA spinoffs but the WBA was powerful enough for spinoff to be legit as ****. Then lineal, then **** like the IBO.

Purely by title:

Ruiz
Wilder
Fury



*****es crying because they think punch count wins fights doesn't mean a thing to me. Pretend wins for a pretend champion seems fitting. Fury beat Wilder like Pac beat Horn...It didn't happen, but, Fury fans being such *****es they like to pretend. Like the tinkerbells they are, they play tea party with Fury's career; pretend.

Good post. Pretty solid points.

[Oliverteekah]

Tyson is the best pound4pound circus act! The other top 10 are mere wannabes in this (circus) arena! Tyson is so comparable to ***** viz a vis Reality TV!

[MrBillion]

If Wilder beat Fury, he would call himself a lineal champ now.

Facts haha

[Marchegiano]

Good post. Pretty solid points.

I appreciate it.

[Yacontya]

I see some people on here have finally seen some points I was making more than a year ago regarding “lineal champion”.
This first point, “beat the man who beat the man” garbage means nothing and why? Because previous claimants to this imaginary title retired whilst still champ so, what about titles be stripped or vacated? Or is there a different set of rules or exceptions for that? I got the champ being the great gene tunney remaining on top when he retired. Everyone since and their lineage ain’t worth chit because no kunt beat him to obtain the crown. In truth of the words “beat the man who beat the man” it ended on 26/7/1928. After that, I have seen no evidence of “special circumstances” for anyone or maybe, we just start all over again when someone retires, gets stripped or vacated? Yes I think that would be fair to all players. No ***** fan would be sayin anything if he never carried on would they? and obviously, fury getting stripped and avoiding rematch with the big klit AAAAAAND vacating because of his “problems” also means that he was or IS no longer the lineal champion.
Second point, since AJ fought and won fair and square the title (just like on 12/6/1930 when Max Schmelling beat jack Sharkey) fury has made no attempt to fight him and let’s be realistic with this, he does have a massive gob and appears passionate about his claim so, why not try to reclaim it? If it were me, I wouldn’t try to take what I thought was someone else’s, (wilder) I would want what I thought was mine a reclaim the “lineal champ status” aaaaaand he has made no attempt to do so even after claiming he would do this or that to Tony Joshua is all complete drivel until he climbs through the ropes, plain and simple.
So it goes like this,
People are free to think whatever they like and claim whatever they like but, in the case of fury being lineal champ is not even thin, he’s has no belts and they have changed hands again and again AND should shortly change back so will that make AJ the lineal champ? Because it worked for fury even though the last lineal champ retired with titles intact during 1926 so how would fury claim to be “the man who beat the man”. Wanker.

[Tha Kid]

It's true, this lineal champion is a made up title. Tyson just can't get over his no longer champion.

Agreed. Since he is Champ...where is his belt?

[Tha Kid]

Wilder better cool down.

Fury is gonna unify the WWE and WBC HW titles.

Fury is going to get his head removed from his neck 😂

[Larry the boss]

Wilder wasnt saying that when they were building up to their fight

[Marchegiano]

How is he lineal when he Lennox retires? In fact how is anyone lineal after Marciano retired?

That touches on what I was *****ing about.

In Marciano's era there is no such thing as lineal. So, you have a choice for how you handle his vacancy.

Do you:

A.) Look back to a time when sanctioning bodies did not exist for how they handled the crowning of the next champion?

B.) Look forward to Ali's era when the term was actually coined?

Because how Corbett, Jeffries, and the bare knuckle champions like Jem Ward handled their retirement and return to the sport, without loss, is very, very different from how Ali's return is regarded.

The truth, the only real truth, is before sanctioning bodies the HW champion controlled boxing. That's why Broughton wrote the first rules, Spring and Jackson amended them, Mace and Sully changed them to Queensberry. There's a lot more to that ye olde control the HW champ had then just rules.

When a pre-sanctioning body champion retired he picked the men who would fight for his title, the man who won was champion unless the original champion objected or returned to boxing.

Post sanctioning body you already know all about. The bodies handle ranking and name the contenders within them.

There is no real lineal one and two. There is pre lineal, simply champion, era best active fighters, plural, but no one and two. One and two are sanctioning body things.

Many thought Fitzs was best after Corbett retired. Others though Maher. and still some O'Donnell, Corbett's sparring partner and Jack Johnson's trainer for the Ketchel fight.

Corbett pick O'Donnell and Maher, Maher wins, Maher is champion.

Maher loses to Fitzs, Fitzs is champion.

Fitzs loses to Sharkey, Sharkey is champion.

Corbett returns to boxing, Corbett, being unbeaten, is champion, Maher, Fitzs, and Sharkey are stricken from the record, Fitzs beats Corbett, Fitzs rejoins the lineage of champion.

But, let's be clear, that's old, traditional, and not what happened in Ali's era.

Ali is champion. Ali is suspended Frazier is champion, Frazier loses to Foreman, Foreman is champion, Foreman lose to Ali, Ali is champion again. Ali, apparently, does not have the power Corbett had.

Jim Jeffries also retired unbeaten and elected Jack Root and Marvin Hart for his title. Hart won, Hart's a champ. When Jeffries returned he too was called the true champion, he lost, Jack's reign goes unstriken. To be fair, the lineage born of the Maher reign stayed until Jeffries whooped Sharkey too. When Sharkey lost is when Maher, Fitzs, Sharkey, lose reigns. Which is why I call that list just bull****.

Anyway, my point is there is consistency in the history before sanctioning bodies. I can take it all the way back to Figg. In that time there's eleven unbeaten HW champions and more who retired as champion. I know that history very well

However, post Ali lineal is a hoshposh of fan feelings and misconceptions. Take for example the one and two theory. Where the **** did that come from? Deaf Burke, I can assure you, knows nothing about ranking. It's a sanctioning body thing being plugged into a title that's meant to reflect pre sanctioning body eras.

New lineages? Where did this come from? If you told Jeffries he wasn't passing his crown he was starting a new lineage Jeffries would call you an oddball.

So, how is there a lineal champion after Marciano indeed. There's two options, neither of them right, neither better than the other, but both will continue a lineage for you.