No Idea How Some Folks Score A Fight

[Diego Rodriguez]

It is funny how guys who are blatantly biased want to be taken serious.

I can find more articles about people thinking Tupac is still alive than find people who thought Canelo WON. Just goes to show you that no matter the issue some people are always going to be out in left field. They are the person in the conversation that everyone just looks and at the end says, okay now that that's out of the way let's carry on with a half way intelligent conversation.

[koolkc107]

Brilliant Post.

The reason that some many people think that GGG was robbed is due to the Narrative fed them based on GGG's higher workrate and punch output.

Canelo just landed the more telling, crisper and solid punches to the Head and Body and i gave him at least 6 rds and was being as fair to GGG as possible.

A DRAW or 7-5 either way was the Right Way to Score this fight and TWO of the THREE JUDGES SAW IT THAT WAY TOO.

Everyone is all over Adelaide Byrd (and rightfully so) but almost no one wants to talk about how the two other judges had it just about as close as you can get.

Are those guys corrupt or incompetent too?

The one who had it a draw is supposedly the one who has shown the least bias and made the least amount of mistakes in his career.

If we can't go with a guy like that who can we go with?

[koolkc107]

I'm wondering the same thing from the Thread starter who wants to give Canelo 7-8 rounds

Like come on

If you had to pick one guy who won 8 rounds, it would be Canelo.

I personally think you have to be generous with one round to give either guy 8.

I can't identify more than 5 rounds that went to Triple G and it is clear to me that a lot of people simply gave rounds to him because he was coming forward.

The problem is this: if you are coming forward and missing at a career high rate AND a lot of the punches you DO LAND are partially blocked or pitty-pat, that ISNT EFFECTIVE AGGRESSION.

You are simply scoring for Golovkin because he looks like the aggressor and not because of any effectiveness of that aggression.

Last I checked, being aggressive is not itself a scoring criterion.

[Buckfever]

I think comes down to whether you score the jab in which case is was a decisive victory for Golovkin. I do think Canelo did better than expected, but he still clearly has stamina issues. They should work on that. I think Golovkin has slowed down.

[Jsmooth9876]

It isn't rocket science, folks.

4 Criteria:

Ring Generalship
Effective Aggression
Defense
Hard Clean Punches

I gave Golovkin Ring Generalship. He dictated the pace and how the fight was fought. But, it is the only one of the 4 criteria he won.

Canelo was not aggressive, seeking to move and counter. But, while Golovkin did cut the ring off beautifully all night, there often was zero payoff when he trapped Canelo on the ropes. I think this was the biggest factor in the fight. Golovkin had mixed results at best when he got Canelo where he wanted him.

When it comes to Defense, it isn't close. Saul constantly thwarted Golovkin when Gennady got close, blocking most of what Golovkin threw, and rolling most of what got thru. By contrast, it seemed that Canelo could flurry and throw in combination whenever he got ready- granted, there were rounds where he did not throw as much as he should have.

Hard Clean Punches was won far and away by Canelo. The fact that Golovkin walked right thru most of them doesn't mean you do not score them. And while Golovkin did land some heavy shots of his own, they were not as clean as Saul's shots nor did they come as often as Canelos. Gennady did display an pretty effective jab at times, but it was also often superfluous as Canelo was moving away too much of the time for it to score as landed.

I had it 7 rounds to 5 for Canelo.

Saul won rounds 1 thru 4, round 6, and the championship rounds 11 and 12.

I had Golovkin taking 5, and rounds 7 thru 10.

3 of the rounds I gave Golovkin (5,7, and 10) were close enough to have been scored the other way.

Only one of the rounds I gave Canelo (4) might have gone for Golovkin.

My guess is in the rematch, Canelo will win a clear and wide decision.

One thing he can do is get in good enough shape to throw more punches more often- which I grant may be much harder than it sounds.

The other thing he can do is look to flurry, then tie up Golovkin more often, keeping things in the middle of the ring more.

P.S.- I can't help thinking that what Jacobs did to Golovkin is looking better all the time.

P.S. II- I know folks are up in arms over Adelaide Byrd's scorecard. 118-110 is absurd. But, that doesn't mean you could not score the fight for Canelo. If she had turned in a card of 115-113 for Saul, we would have the same result. Let's not get so carried away by what is clearly a corrupt or inept judge that we lose sight of the fact that, of the many possible outcomes, a draw was quite within the realm of acceptability.

Your argument falls apart right away when you say the defense wasn't close.. Shots thrown/ landed through 12 rounds were less than 3% points different which means they landed and missed and almost the same exact rate ...Canelo landed the better power shots but GGG also made him miss just as often % wise.

[Jsmooth9876]

If you had to pick one guy who won 8 rounds, it would be Canelo.

I personally think you have to be generous with one round to give either guy 8.

I can't identify more than 5 rounds that went to Triple G and it is clear to me that a lot of people simply gave rounds to him because he was coming forward.

The problem is this: if you are coming forward and missing at a career high rate AND a lot of the punches you DO LAND are partially blocked or pitty-pat, that ISNT EFFECTIVE AGGRESSION.

You are simply scoring for Golovkin because he looks like the aggressor and not because of any effectiveness of that aggression.

Last I checked, being aggressive is not itself a scoring criterion.

And fighting for 30 seconds while running around the ring for the other 2:30 while your opponent constantly is working and landing, even if they're not the biggest shots, is winning rounds? I don't think many people agree with how you score a fight.

[koolkc107]

I think comes down to whether you score the jab in which case is was a decisive victory for Golovkin. I do think Canelo did better than expected, but he still clearly has stamina issues. They should work on that. I think Golovkin has slowed down.

I DID score the jab in the rounds it was effective.

But, I can't score it if it isn't landing.

Now granted, there is a school of thought that says you can control things with a jab even if it isn't landing all the time.

I get that.

But, if you score that, you must ALSO score for defense if someone is making that jab miss- in other words, it's a push and no one wins the "effective aggression" criteria. The jabber gets ring generalship for the control and the guy slipping the jab gets defense.

I think that is where a lot of folks messed up the scoring on this and other fights.

[koolkc107]

And fighting for 30 seconds while running around the ring for the other 2:30 while your opponent constantly is working and landing, even if they're not the biggest shots, is winning rounds? I don't think many people agree with how you score a fight.

That happened in a lot of the rounds I scored for Gennady.

It wasn't that he was all that effective, it was just that Canelo didn't do enough.

But in 1-3, 6, and 10-12 Canelo did more than enough to win those rounds.

[koolkc107]

Your argument falls apart right away when you say the defense wasn't close.. Shots thrown/ landed through 12 rounds were less than 3% points different which means they landed and missed and almost the same exact rate ...Canelo landed the better power shots but GGG also made him miss just as often % wise.

Nice try.

Percentage wise is a cop out.

Golovkin whiffed almost 500 times, jabs and powershots.

That was Canelo making him miss, making him tally a career low connect rate.

I will not argue this with you again.

Defense was far and away Canelo's win.

[DinoCop]

Canelo landed the less powerful punches, less number of punches and backed off. No way he wins rounds like that when GGG comes forward, lands harder, more and makes him back off.