Every other sport great defense is fine but in boxing it's a bad thing.

[Francis M.]

Defense always wins championships but slowing down your offense in any sport as a defensive strategy is never popular.

Floyd in half of his fights were exciting but his last three fights were stinkers and relied on clinching and slowed down offense.

Detroit Piston with Isaah Thomas were exiting to watch and they were winning with tough defense and still played a decent pace offense.

Bad defense was Villanova vs Georgetown. Villanova just held the ball for most of the possession as part of the defense strategy which led to a very boring game and also led to adding shot clock in college.

[al-Xander]

Well, if you think about it, running with excessive clinching is one dimensional. It shows your lack of inside skills. You're doomed if the ref happens to enforce the rules. The opponent is like fighting two people in the ring.

[al-Xander]

In basketball, for instance, there are defensive rules that must be adhered to. Otherwise, you're fouled. In boxing the refs are too scared to enforce the rules. The excessive clincher always gets away with it.

[j0zef]

Actually, even though you do hear that defense wins championships in basketball, defensive teams always get crapped on by writers, they always have poor ratings, and their players never get respect and are labeled boring.

It's exactly same thing in boxing.

[Tony Trick-Pony]

In basketball or football all you hear is defense wins championships but in boxing you have fighters like Rigo or Floyd and they get **** on by boxing fans.

Rigo can beat a top p4p guy and get hate from his own promoter. Floyd beats champ after champ, has high ppv sells time after time and gets called boring while the Broncos offense sucks all year no one says they're boring they just say that's football it happens.A football team could win a game 10-7 or 13-3 and people wouldn't say the game was boring, they would talk about how great the defense is.

Even a team like the Spurs who some people call boring get respect league wide and from the fans and get called a model franchise by everyone.

Do other sports fans just accept the way they're sport is and boxing fans can't? Is it because it's easier to criticize a individual than a whole team? It could be but even mma fans don't really call guys boring if they're great at bjj or wrestling.


Why is that?


Real question this isn't to start a race debate.

I don't think Floyd or Rigo get booed and called boring because of defense. Roberto Duran, Felix Trinidad and Julio Cesar Chavez, Sr. and so many others had great defenses and didn't get booed because along with their defensive skills, they brought action. Floyd and Rigo tend to settle a fight down, use their defenses to win and win convincingly, but they don't go after the opponent and mix it up like people want. Carmen Basilio once said that he gave people action and it's true. Like Lomachenko. He has excellent defense, but he also sets guys up with small maneuvers in the ring and makes the fight happen with pressure and action. And this whole thing isn't just Floyd and Rigo. Billy Joe Suanders for one, IMO, doesn't bring enough action at all. Skillwise, he's sound, but he needs to throw more and do more in the ring to not only be exciting, but also win more convincingly. Defense should always be respected. A guy like Provodnikov provides lots of action which is exciting until his defensive laps become obvious and painful to watch in which the fight becomes not really boring but really frustrating and painful to know he doesn't have to take every punch that's thrown at him, ala Yori Boy Campas. It's about a lack of action- not defensive skills. Any fighter who doesn't have defensive skills isn't around long in this business.

[Tony Trick-Pony]

Well, if you think about it, running with excessive clinching is one dimensional. It shows your lack of inside skills. You're doomed if the ref happens to enforce the rules. The opponent is like fighting two people in the ring.

That does show a serious lack of skill. I respect a guy with a great defense and excellent footwork, but all too often, fans try to say a guy who runs and holds is great at both, when he just isn't. He's holding because he can't fight on the inside. He'd running and leaping away from shots because he has no fundamentals as far as footwork and feinting to put the opponent where he wants them. A lack of knowledge and skill overall, which is annoying to say the least. Derrick Gainer is a prime example of this. Just watch his fight with Marquez. Gainer showed speed but not really any skills or heart for that matter.

[Spoon23]

If you mean clinches, understand that's an allowable strategy, whether you like it or not. Touching your opponent in distance running is not. That's the flaw in your analogy.

Now, if you said something like Ronda Rousey stepping into a boxing ring against Laila Ali and going for a takedown, that's different. It's not allowed. But no MMA fighter should be that ******.

Now, if Joe Calzaghe used his slap boxing skills in the MMA ring and wins, guess what? That's legal. A bit dirty, but still legal as far as I know.

You and all of your ilk keep focusing on clinching for your complaints. You complain if Floyd or anyone else clinches even once. That's not how it should be.

Learn the difference between clinching coz they got tangled up and the intentional clinching which is not allowed in boxing and an obvious foul. In any sport there are good defense and defense that are not allowed coz it's foul, in other words the kind that has no merit.


WBA rules

A list of common fouls that may be committed by boxers that may be cause for penalty or
disqualification is as follows:
...
13. Excessive holding the opponent or maintaining a clinch.

No clinching is allowed. Its a rule , a rule refs dont enforce. Especially floyd go to ref Bayless.



You don't prevent an opponent from countering by hugging. That's just not boxing. too much fouling by Floyd and not a single point deduction from Bayless tsk tsk tsk...

Look at Pac unleashing his barrage of punches. What does Floyd do? He hugs it out to prevent an opponent to connect. This ain't boxing. This is lame cowardly, foul tactics lol

[IMG]//i279.***********.com/albums/kk145/daheadache/MANNYFLOYD_zpsg1mmif31.gif[/IMG]
.
This ain't no defense to be impressed about. This is called FOULING.




...

[al-Xander]

Clinching is even dangerous when you happen to have an opponent who retaliates by rabbit punching. Guys like Matthysse against Postol is one example. Prichard Colon is still in a coma (I believe) because of the rabbit punches he took from Williams, in my opinion. (I'm not a doctor so I can't be sure of that. I based it on what I saw in that fight.)

[Spoon23]

That does show a serious lack of skill. I respect a guy with a great defense and excellent footwork, but all too often, fans try to say a guy who runs and holds is great at both, when he just isn't. He's holding because he can't fight on the inside. He'd running and leaping away from shots because he has no fundamentals as far as footwork and feinting to put the opponent where he wants them. A lack of knowledge and skill overall, which is annoying to say the least. Derrick Gainer is a prime example of this. Just watch his fight with Marquez. Gainer showed speed but not really any skills or heart for that matter.

Good points. He's holding coz his skill is limited. Holding is a desperate act of survival. It's the easiest way to get away from a tight fix. Refs that allow this are either paid off or just plain ****** not to notice this isn't allowed in boxing.

A boxer should try to get away from a pickle by boxing, bobbing, weaving, slip, sliding, rolling with the punches, feinting, countering, while holding is a form of desperation and is very amateur given they are suppose to be Pros. Boxers are expected to fight/punch and block punches with their ability to evade punches through defense and not by holding.

[Tony Trick-Pony]

Good points. He's holding coz his skill is limited. Holding is a desperate act of survival. It's the easiest way to get away from a tight fix. Refs that allow this are either paid off or just plain ****** not to notice this isn't allowed in boxing.

A boxer should try to get away from a pickle by boxing, bobbing, weaving, slip, sliding, rolling with the punches, feinting, countering, while holding is a form of desperation and is very amateur given they are suppose to be Pros. Boxers are expected to fight/punch and block punches with their ability to evade punches through defense and not by holding.

That's it, man. All those skills require training and discipline and are very impressive to watch. Numerous times I've heard a crowd cheer when a guy avoids a string of punches and counters. It's very impressive to watch. let a casual watch Willie Pep and they would be impressed. You keep watching to see if the other guy can actually hit him. It's when guys have no skill and use the desperation tactics and are allowed to use them over and over that you end up with an amateurish, low action fight and I'm no casual, but I hate low action fights. Like with Fury-Klitschko. I respect that Fury was able to throw Wlad off and it was a smart performance, but he could have done a lot more and made the fight much more fun to watch. it wouldn't have involved a hell of a lot of risk either. He had Wlad stumped. He could have fired on him more and brought more excitement.