Hopkins or Toney - who was better?

[Left Hook Tua]

Toney was more talented and gifted.

Hopkins was more dedicated and trained better.

At their peaks toney whoops Hopkins but toney was rarely at his best.

[hugh grant]

When I think oif honey I never really rate his ski!L's. I just think chin.
But he obviously had skills cos I keep hearing he did.

I would have liked to have seen those skills agasinst benn and eubank. Americas best v UK's best

[soul_survivor]

Hopkins or Toney - who has, all around, proven to be the best of them during their careers? To me, Hopkins was always clearly better than Toney, but some disagree.

That's Hopkins and there is no doubt. How can there be? Longest reigning middleweight champ, light heavyweight champ something like 3 times. World level well at the age of 50. Superior wins on his resume too.

Now, if we're talking prime for prime in terms of skill and entertainment, that's definitely Toney. He was supremely skilled, hit hard and was in some great fights. A prime Toney beats a prime Hopkins h2h but boxing, like any sport, is judged on the entirety of ones career and accomplishments, not just h2h.

[IronDanHamza]

He was super drained for that fight, had the flu, and had cramps for the 2nd half of the fight. That was quite possibly the worst Toney's ever looked in the ring, ever. The guy was tired after the 2nd round.

He outgrew the division at that point, and shouldn't have been fighting at MW. For God's sakes look at how he's throwing his punches in that fight. You couldn't have asked for a better opportunity to beat James Toney.

One of those really really bad nights that fighters have to go through in their career.

That's a very typical and convenient list of excuses. Used for every single James Toney fight in history. Established 1992.

He outgrew the divison by that point? Interesting. How do you explain later that same year "beating" McCallum at the exact same weight?

[IronDanHamza]

Tiberi didn't beat Toney by any means. At best it should've been a DRAW for Toney admitting his difficulty making weight as he looked exhausted in the fight and in the same year going to 168.

That's the problem, Toney's exhaustion translated to casual boxing fans thinking he was HURT. It was one of the worst ABC Sports commentaries I've ever heard that didn't know jack sht about boxing saying Toney was hurt.

Those commentators didn't know anything about rope'a'dope which Toney even then was highly skilled at. There was about 95% commentary never mentioning landed shots by Toney as it was Ward vs Gatti material. When Toney attempted haymakers and missed they said Toney was losing wtf. Punchstats alone from that fight will tell you both engaged. I had more rounds for Toney in general because he landed cleaner shots and used his jab on the backfoot.

All Tiberi was bum rush forward like an amateur Maidana but with more fuel like a Porter judt landing shots on the arms. As much as Tiberi pushed forward Toney was able to push back and fight.

You heard commentary saying "Toney has switched Southpaw which must be a sign that Toney is losing" wtff.

6th round ridiculous change of gloves and Toney comes back to spark up the action boxing nicely where who knows wtf the commentators are talking about making HBO commenary levels above..

Tiberi showed heart but ABC Sports back then were idiots that didnt know jack sht about boxing, at least for that bout. The post ring interviews they disrespect Toney saying it was a disgrace. I give Tiberi credit, but Toney landed nice uppercuts and 1-2 combinations never mentioned.

Worst commentary bouts for sure. Toney is the type of guy to rather say a draw is good as a loss, but no way in hell did Tiberi hurt him. Toney is a juggernaut and has proved the chin of time.

Girlscout commentary that night.

Tiberi bear Toney CLEARLY in one of the biggest robberies I've ever seen in my life.

[IronDanHamza]

I usually agree with your posts but have to disagree with this one, Toney was better. Even people who fought both Toney and Hopkins agreed that Toney was better. Hopkins has even admitted that Toney had more natural talent than he did. However, Hopkins had far more discipline and therefore had greater longevity.

"Even people who fought Hopkins and Toney said Toney was better"

Remind me who these people are because off the top of my head the only common opponent I can think of is Roy Jones and Roy Jones treated James Toney like a new born baby as opposed to Hopkins who gave Roy some problems.

And no Toney was not "better" he did absolutely nothing in his career to suggest that.

[IronDanHamza]

I agree Toney is to inconstant to beat Hopkins...he had a lot of natural talent but lacked discipline and only fought in spots..He seemed to lose focus in the ring

His "natural talent" is overrated.

[IronDanHamza]

Toney was more talented and gifted.

Hopkins was more dedicated and trained better.

At their peaks toney whoops Hopkins but toney was rarely at his best.

Who did Toney ever "whoop" to suggest he'd do anything of the sort to Hopkins?

[TheBoxingXpert]

Okay, so the main consensus is, Toney had more natural talent, but Hopkins trained hard enough to stay the better fighter. I can't imagine Toney winning if they fought each other.

[Johnwoo8686]

"Even people who fought Hopkins and Toney said Toney was better"

Remind me who these people are because off the top of my head the only common opponent I can think of is Roy Jones and Roy Jones treated James Toney like a new born baby as opposed to Hopkins who gave Roy some problems.

And no Toney was not "better" he did absolutely nothing in his career to suggest that.

Yes it was Roy and one other fighter I can't recall the name of right now. Roy said his fight with Hopkins was tougher because Hopkins was the dirtiest fighter had ever faced. Just because you have a harder time with a guy does not make him better than someone else. For example, Mayweather had a harder time with Maidana than he did Pacquiao but we all know who the better fighter is.

Oh yes, and Freddie Roach who trained both Toney and Hopkins said Toney was better. Roach went on to say that Toney was more naturally gifted than Pacquiao and if it wasn't for his lack of discipline could have been the greatest fighter of all time.