Hopkins or Toney - who was better?

[-PBP-]

When was Toney's peak?

That's tough. To me, he had two really strong runs in his career. First around the 91-93 time frame and then the 2003-2005 time frame as a fat cruiser/heavy.

[IronDanHamza]

That's tough. To me, he had two really strong runs in his career. First around the 91-93 time frame and then the 2003-2005 time frame as a fat cruiser/heavy.

I don't think he had a peak.

At every stage his career he struggled/lost to subpar opponents.

[The Big Dunn]

In that period he arguably lost to Williams, Sosa, Johnson and Tiberi.

Can't see that guy beating Hopkins.

I don't know about arguably losing but he didn't win as I expected. you can't just base the whole period on those 4 fights but I think your point is fair.

I would still take Toney. You know he'd actually "get up" and be completely prepared for a Bhop fight.

[The Big Dunn]

I don't think he had a peak.

At every stage his career he struggled/lost to subpar opponents.

IMO one of the true features of greatness is pulling out a tougher than expected fight on a night when you are not at your best.

[Derranged]

clearly you followed a couple posts after that...

Huh? I saw your post and replied.

[IronDanHamza]

I don't know about arguably losing but he didn't win as I expected. you can't just base the whole period on those 4 fights but I think your point is fair.

I would still take Toney. You know he'd actually "get up" and be completely prepared for a Bhop fight.

You're saying you can't make an argument for him losing all those fights?

How do we know that when he couldn't "get up" for Roy Jones?

So what do you base that period off then? I'm basing it off his fights in that time period.

[IronDanHamza]

IMO one of the true features of greatness is pulling out a tougher than expected fight on a night when you are not at your best.

I get that.

But not against the likes of Williams, Sosa, Tiberi, Thadzi etc.

These guys aren't in the top 20 and he at very best struggled badly with all 4. He clearly lost to Tiberi and Thadzi.

Losing to guys like Johnson, Griffin, Jones etc is fine because they're top level guys. But he showed his level in all of those fights. IMO not elite.

[therealpugilist]

Pavliks a whole better than Tiberi, Thadzi and Sosa even the 170 version and he could easily have L's against all 3. He's not tailor made for Toney.

I don't care if it was more quantity than quality, Toney ain't going through it undefeated.

Hopkins did take calculated risks, he did stay at 160 too long, he did do all these things. Still had a way better career than Toney.

Hopkins actually had dominant performances against top tier fighters. Also didn't lose to unranked fighters.

Nunn is better than Taylor, your point? Hopkins lost to him

McCallum is better than Taylor too

If Ho0pkins was fighting the guys toney was @ 160-168 he'd have had a few loses


Toney is better than Hopkins in my eyes...we can agree to disagree

[The Big Dunn]

I get that.

But not against the likes of Williams, Sosa, Tiberi, Thadzi etc.

These guys aren't in the top 20 and he at very best struggled badly with all 4. He clearly lost to Tiberi and Thadzi.

Losing to guys like Johnson, Griffin, Jones etc is fine because they're top level guys. But he showed his level in all of those fights. IMO not elite.

ok, thats fair.

[IronDanHamza]

Nunn is better than Taylor, your point? Hopkins lost to him

McCallum is better than Taylor too

If Ho0pkins was fighting the guys toney was @ 160-168 he'd have had a few loses


Toney is better than Hopkins in my eyes...we can agree to disagree

Tiberi, Thadzi, Sosa and Williams are way worse than all of them put together. My point is Toney lost/struggled with all of them.

You can have your opinion. He didn't prove it in the ring though.