Why was Mayweather held to such standards from certain posters?

[PivotandRoll]

also, do you really think wilfred benitez is a top 50 all time great? accomplished and great fighter, sure, but top 50? i typically don't see him in a solid top 50 list.

Do you honestly think Joe Frazier is half the fighter Roberto Duran is P4P???

[Dip_Slide]

classic tactic of a fanboy to believe anybody who disagrees is a fanboy of the opposing party. i went to floyd - canelo, FFS, and i wasn't there to watch the red headed kid. cost me a lot of money, and was one of the more fulfilling experiences of my life.

shoulder doe



and manny never struggled with tim bradley. and he was badly depleted, damn near retirement, when floyd finally stopped crapping on the fight.


both sides delayted that fight. their careers / movement by the end were essentially a promotion towards that fight. if you disagree with that you're a fanboy. and yes, manny was much, much more deteriorated than floyd. again, refuse to believe that and you're a fanboy with no business evaluating the level of deterioration in a fighter. not saying floyd was 25 and prime, only that any swinging **** worth his salt can tell you that manny's career had taken a greater toll, and that he was more shopworn. he'd been out cold against marquez, and visibly slowing and losing his edge for years to any trained eye.

Bottom line, Manny Was still the second best welterweight in the world and he beat the #3 P4P fighter in the world only a year before he fought Floyd and a year after he fought Floyd.

Manny indeed didn't look like he did in 2009, but Floyd wasn't same either! they were both well past it and Floyd looked like crap in his 2 fights against Maidana, a guy he was supposed to easily beat, in both Maidana fights we saw Floyd miss with a lot of his punches, we saw him get hit with silly stuff, we saw him fatigue, we saw him hold more than any other fight in his whole career, etc....., Floyd's last great performance was in 2013 against Canelo, Pacquiao had 2 very good performances in 2014 against 2 champs and one last great performance in 2016 after he fought Floyd.

Floyd beating Manny in 2015 is a huge accomplishment and it shouldn't be diminished by the delay due to the fact that both fighters aged and it is pretty obvious that both were almost equally past their best, difference is Floyd didn't get KOed in a fight he was easily dominating because he got reckless, Manny getting KOed by Marquez is btw NOT a sign of him deteriorating, his speed and skills were in point that night, he just got reckless and paid for it, and stop wit the " oh he became scared of getting hit after he got KOed" excuse since he threw almost 600 Punches against Bradley and 700 against Algieri. he threw almost 2/3 of that against Floyd just like all other Floyd's opponents.

[sicko]

Americans in general will be held to a higher standard because of that Rich History in boxing that America have. Other countries don't have that history so their is no STANDARD and their is no BAR

Following Ray Leonard foot steps as that next great Welterweight should be a tough act to follow, same with Ali as a Heavyweight same with Hagler at Middleweight. So yeah the International Guys don't get the same high expectations because most of them are the Trailblazers for their Country so it is no standard or bar set for them yet. However when it comes to the Americans, that bar is always going to be high and basically unrealistic because all of the greatness that was already seen

[New England]

Bottom line, Manny Was still the second best welterweight in the world and he beat the #3 P4P fighter in the world only a year before he fought Floyd and a year after he fought Floyd.

Manny indeed didn't look like he did in 2009, but Floyd wasn't same either! they were both well past it and Floyd looked like crap in his 2 fights against Maidana, a guy he was supposed to easily beat, in both Maidana fights we saw Floyd miss with a lot of his punches, we saw him get hit with silly stuff, we saw him fatigue, we saw him hold more than any other fight in his whole career, etc....., Floyd's last great performance was in 2013 against Canelo, Pacquiao had 2 very good performances in 2014 against 2 champs and one last great performance in 2016 after he fought Floyd.

Floyd beating Manny in 2015 is a huge accomplishment and it shouldn't be diminished by the delay due to the fact that both fighters aged and it is pretty obvious that both were almost equally past their best, difference is Floyd didn't get KOed in a fight he was easily dominating because he got reckless, Manny getting KOed by Marquez is btw NOT a sign of him deteriorating, his speed and skills were in point that night, he just got reckless and paid for it, and stop wit the " oh he became scared of getting hit after he got KOed" excuse since he threw almost 600 Punches against Bradley and 700 against Algieri. he threw almost 2/3 of that against Floyd just like all other Floyd's opponents.

you're welcome to any opinion you'd like, but i think the bold is completely inappropriate. manny was a former flyweight fighting much larger men with a style that didn't lend itself to a prolongd career. he took punches in victory and defeat, and FFS the guy was a world class professional as a flyweight. he's small, probably had serious trouble making weight in those days, and that takes a huge toll on your body.

\ he was on a completely different level in terms of how far he had slid. you're welcome to present any case that you'd like to try and convince me otherwise, but i don't think you'll have much success. manny was still high ranked [which is really an evaluation of your place among your peers in a poor-ish era, not simply an evaluation of how good you are,] but he had slipped immeasurably both physically and also mentally. career as a high level politician [admittedly, i have no idea what his duties as a legislator look like. he could just be a "token".] very obvious lack of a killer instinct in contrast to early stages in his career. troubles training with cramps, lower body issues, a shoulder that was obviously not fully blown out the way they try and tell you, but that was probably giving him problems / a nagging injury.



and manny wasn't dominating the 4th marquez fight. he was dropped hard and badly hurt, and there was a give and take even if i'd agree that manny was looking better at the time of the stopapge. he had looked old and lost on any reasonable card to marquez in 2011. 2011 was a long, long time ago, and manny had been on the slide the entire time.

[New England]

Do you honestly think Joe Frazier is half the fighter Roberto Duran is P4P???

duran's a much, much higher ranked fighter than frazier. i'm not going to speculate on whether he's "half" the great duran was, as it's not all that productive.

but was he in shape and prepared when he fought ray leonard in the rematch? it's well documented that he didn't train pariticularly hard, and that he ate his way to 190ish lbs between the two fights, which were only 4-5 months apart.

[IronDanHamza]

you're counting names, not wins. ali beat frazier 2x, liston 2x, norton 2x, foreman. that's 7 fights. so no, kalule is not a better win than whichever win you place as 5th best on that list. at least, you're not going to get a lot of people who agree with you.

the kalule win doesn't separate itself much over the "pack" of contenders that ali beat. and when you consider that he lined them up basically for 2 decades, back to back, and leonard spent a lot of time retired, i don't think the disucussion needs to be carried on much further. again, 154 was still a transitionary, young weight class at the time of leonard / kalule's career, and HW boxing was arguably the most popular sport in the states during ali's.

Ok? Leonard beat Duran twice and Hearns once and a controversial draw much like Ali's controversial 3 fights with Norton.

And yes, outside of those NAMES, Kalule is better than most, if not all of those names. Who's really better? Jimmy Ellis and Lyle could maybe be argued but not really. Chuvalo, Cooper, Foster, Quarry? No.

Heavyweight was a more popular divison than Welterweight. Don't see the relevance to the discussion there.

Benitez is the only one that's not a Top 50 ATG (arguable), the only fighter Ali beat who's arguable an ATG at all is Foreman.

[IronDanHamza]

duran's a much, much higher ranked fighter than frazier. i'm not going to speculate on whether he's "half" the great duran was, as it's not all that productive.

but was he in shape and prepared when he fought ray leonard in the rematch? it's well documented that he didn't train pariticularly hard, and that he ate his way to 190ish lbs between the two fights, which were only 4-5 months apart.

And I suppose Frazier was at his best for the 2nd and 3rd Ali fights and Liston was at his best for either of the Ali fights?

[IronDanHamza]

also, do you really think wilfred benitez is a top 50 all time great? accomplished and great fighter, sure, but top 50? i typically don't see him in a solid top 50 list.

What's a solid top 50 list to you?

[New England]

Ok? Leonard beat Duran twice and Hearns once and a controversial draw much like Ali's controversial 3 fights with Norton.

And yes, outside of those NAMES, Kalule is better than most, if not all of those names. Who's really better? Jimmy Ellis and Lyle could maybe be argued but not really. Chuvalo, Cooper, Foster, Quarry? No.

Heavyweight was a more popular divison than Welterweight. Don't see the relevance to the discussion there.

Benitez is the only one that's not a Top 50 ATG (arguable), the only fighter Ali beat who's arguable an ATG at all is Foreman.

are you f#cking joking :lol1? getting old, perhaps ?

bob foster
archie moore
floyd patterson
joe frazier

and arguably sonny liston, though i'd probably be unlikely to indlude him in the top 100 if i ever hashed one out.

[IronDanHamza]

are you f#cking joking :lol1? getting old, perhaps ?

bob foster
archie moore
floyd patterson
joe frazier

and arguably sonny liston, though i'd probably be unlikely to indlude him in the top 100 if i ever hashed one out.

Floyd Patterson an ATG That's a laugh.

Frazier most definitely not an ATG.

Archie Moore obviously an ATG but why bother including him for Ali?

Foster arguably an ATG, same scenario as above.