Could Bruce Lee beat a Professional Boxer?

[MysticNinjaJay]

Interesting Bruce Lee claim

I've been looking for a way to measure my punching speed and power. I heard that Bruce Lee himself had his speed measured. According to Jesse Glover in his book Bruce Lee: Between Wing Chun and Jeet Kune Do, Bruce Lee was able to land a punch at 500ths of a second (0.05 seconds). That translates to about 40 mph. Ricky Hatton had his speed measured by scientists and had an average speed of 25 mph.

Chad Dawson had his punching speed measured by Sports Science at 30 ft/sec (20 mph).




So Bruce Lee had a punching speed significantly greater than some elite professional Boxers.

By the way has anyone seen this product?

[hugh grant]

All lies. Believe whatever you want. It seems that you're too much of a fanboy to listen to reason. I'm a fan but I'm trying to be as objective as possible on this issue.

I've made my points very clearly. I think that Bruce Lee while a talented Martial Artist was not the best fighter in the world but certainly better than a lot of the haters think. People are both overestimating him and underestimating him. I don't believe I've done either.

I class Bruce lee haters as people who deliberately try underestimate Bruce lee. You fall into this catergory without a shadow of a doubt.
Firstly insinuating Lee wasn't highly respected as a fighter, but would be more respected if their is a source for the Bob Wall interview....yes these are the ridiculous things you come out with without embarrassment. You underestimate how highly regarded Bruce lee is as a fighter. You underestimate how highly revered bruce lee is by his fellow peers and the MMA world, and would rather spend too much online on forums reading what haters have to say about bruce lee .
You take too seriously, and give to much credit to what annonymous bruce lee haters say about bruce anonymously online and think they actually think and believe what they say, and take it as general consensus. Most normal unbiased martial arts fans and people in general take Bruce lee haters talking crap as a lot of jealous people out there. When you got black belt jones, ie, Jim Kelly saying Lee is untouchable and nobody could beat bruce lee in his era, Bob Wall saying bruce lee beat champs in seconds, Delgado saying Lee was the best, Mullins saying hed pick Lee in any situation, its going to make many people jealous isn't it, look at yourself for example. You've got books with hunderds and hundreds of pages long with quotes of what bruce lee students say about how great Bruce lee was. Quotes of famous martial artists and fighters and celebrities talking about how they idolize Lee and how damn great Lee was. Its going to make people jealous isn't it? ANd you vent your jealousy anonymously that's how it works.

You insinuate it ridiculous Bruce lee could shut down boxers like Bob Wall claimed Lee did to world karate champs, and you regard Jim Kelly as literally talking crap when he said nobody could beat bruce lee in his era. So underestimating Lee is a theme with you isn't it? So what we are learning is bruces peers are giving bruce the credit he deserves and you are underestimating bruce. YOu make out you are standing up for bruce but its clear the people who stand up for bruce are the people who saw Lee do his thing, and you ridicule them.

Speaking of Bob Wall here's something he said about Bruce Lee that actually comes from a verifiable source.

From the Deadly Hands interview:






Now these are Bob Wall's words and he made 4 interesting points:

1. Bruce Lee was threatened by the world champions he worked with.

2. Bruce Lee had an ego and didn't want to challenge himself for fear of losing.

3. A lot of what has been printed about Bruce Lee is mythical and wonderful.

4. Wall doesn't believe that Bruce Lee would have beaten bigger world champions.

Now you'll probably dismiss this as just bitter talk like Joe Lewis or Vic Moore's comments. Me? I'm prepared to take the good with the bad. I'm interested in the real Bruce Lee and his real fighting skills not a mythical Bruce Lee manufactured by Hollywood that a lot of people buy in to.

You are right it is bitter talk which Bob is embarrassed about now, he even pretends he never said things like they came out. Bob was always in Lees shadow and Bob couldn't downgrade when Lee was alive no matter how mouthy Lee got. Bruce put down everyone. He put down Norris, he put down Lewis. So why wouldn't Bob take advantage of the fact Lee died to get in a cheapshot?
Bob implied he couldn't beat champions in the sport of karate. But he has told us what Bruce did in the real world of combat. He toyed with the Norris of this world.

Bruce Lee was in fantastic shape and a highly skilled Martial Artist. But he wasn't a professional fighter and he was a small man. I don't think he was the best fighter to ever live. It may upset you to hear that but that's my opinion and I'm entitled to it.


Stop whining about me giving my opinion on the matter. I have a right to do that.

Yes you have a right to hate and be jealous of Lee, theres lots like you out there. But now you are talking about whether bruce lee was the best fighter who ever lived like a lot of people think. Whereas your original enquiry is about what would happen if Bruce fought an elite boxer. You are hard to pin down you are like a slippery snake jumping from one idea to another.

[MysticNinjaJay]

I class Bruce lee haters as people who deliberately try underestimate Bruce lee. You fall into this catergory without a shadow of a doubt.
Firstly insinuating Lee wasn't highly respected as a fighter, but would be more respected if their is a source for the Bob Wall interview....yes these are the ridiculous things you come out with without embarrassment.

I insinuated no such thing. I said that if the Bob Wall interview was true it would give more credibility to Bruce Lee's skills as a fighter but I never implied that he was not regarded as a decent fighter by his peers. Chuck Norris said he was good. Jim Kelly said he was great (Michael Jordan of sparring), others have said he was good in verified statements. So he has a lot of credibility with world class Martial Artists but we still haven't seen him fight anyone of a high caliber. If he really beat world champions in sparring that would give him more credibility even than he has now, wouldn't you agree?

You underestimate how highly regarded Bruce lee is as a fighter. You underestimate how highly revered bruce lee is by his fellow peers and the MMA world, and would rather spend too much online on forums reading what haters have to say about bruce lee .

No, I know full well what Mixed Martial Artists have said about Bruce Lee I'm just weighing the facts on the matter. We have praise from accomplished fighters for how influential he was and some who knew him that say he was a good fighter but no actual record of his fights. If he actually fought world champions and beat them I think that would make his claim to be a great fighter more credible.

You take too seriously what bruce lee haters say about bruce and think they actually think and believe what they say, and take it as general consensus.

I've never taken haters statements on Bruce Lee as the consensus on the matter.

Most normal people take Bruce lee haters talking crap as a lot of jealous people out there. When you got black belt jones, ie, Jim Kelly saying Lee is untouchable and nobody could beat bruce lee in his era, Bob Wall saying bruce lee beat champs in seconds, Delgado saying Lee was the best, Mullins saying hed pick Lee in any situation, its going to make many people jealous isn't it, look at yourself for example.

When did Jim Kelly actually say that Bruce Lee was untouchable and when did Bob Wall say he beat champions in seconds? I'm not denying these statements out right what I'm doing is fact-checking. So far you've been to lazy to back up some of your claims with sources so I don't expect you to do it now but I would encourage you to back up those comments with a source.

You insinuate it ridiculous Bruce lee could shut down boxers like Bob Wall claimed Lee did to world karate champs, and you regard Jim Kelly as literally talking crap when he said nobody could beat bruce lee in his era.

I did no such thing. In fact in a recent post I said that Bruce Lee has a decent chance to beat Boxers because he knew more skills than them.

So underestimating Lee is a theme with you isn't it? So what we are learning is bruces peers are giving bruce the credit he deserves and you are underestimating bruce. YOu make out you are standing up for bruce but its clear the people who stand up for bruce are the people who saw Lee do his thing, and you ridicule them.

I didn't ridicule anyone and you haven't provided a single instance of me underestimating Bruce Lee. In fact in my last post I provided evidence that Bruce Lee has faster hands than some professional Boxers whose speed had been tested. I respect Bruce Lee as an influential Martial Artist I'm just trying to learn what I can about his actual fighting ability.

Asking for sources is not ridiculing anyone.

You are right it is bitter talk which Bob is embarrassed about now, he even pretends he never said things like they came out. Bob was always in Lees shadow and Bob couldn't downgrade when Lee was alive no matter how mouthy Lee got. Bruce put down everyone. He put down Norris, he put down Lewis. So why wouldn't Bob take advantage of the fact Lee died to get in a cheapshot?

You see you want to accept Bob Wall's (unverified) comments when he is praising Bruce Lee as a skilled fighter but not when he is criticizing him.

You're not being objective.

Bob implied he couldn't beat champions in the sport of karate. But he has told us what Bruce did in the real world of combat. He toyed with the Norris of this world.

He didn't say in the sport of Karate he said he couldn't beat them period and this is actually an interesting comment because it contradicts the other article where he allegedly said that Bruce sparred with and beat world champions. As far as I'm concerned we have a verified statement by Bob Wall saying one thing and an unverified statement saying another.

Which statement at this point is more credible?

Yes you have a right to hate and be jealous of Lee, theres lots like you out there. But now you are talking about whether bruce lee was the best fighter who ever lived like a lot of people think. Whereas your original enquiry is about what would happen if Bruce fought an elite boxer. You are hard to pin down you are like a slippery snake jumping from one idea to another.

I'm talking about whether Bruce Lee was the best fighter ever because YOU are implying it. Do you actually believe this? State your reasoning.

[hugh grant]

I said that if the Bob Wall interview was true it would give more credibility to Bruce Lee's skills as a fighter but I never implied that he was not regarded as a decent fighter by his peers[/B]. Chuck Norris said he was good. Jim Kelly said he was great (Michael Jordan of sparring), others have said he was good in verified statements. So he has a lot of credibility with world class Martial Artists but we still haven't seen him fight anyone of a high caliber. If he really beat world champions in sparring that would give him more credibility even than he has now, wouldn't you agree?

There you go again with your if Bruce lee did what Bob Wall claims he did? Always try to doubt it don't you? And there you go trying to underestimate Lee with your claims you didn't imply he wasn't considered a decent fighter by his peers? Cant you use the the term great? Does your jealousy mean you cant bring yourself to use that word.

It is hard to have more credibility as a fighter than Bruce lee already has. He is the god of martial arts, a bit of a icon, legend and cult figure. People think Lee is superhuman almost and he is revered.

No, I know full well what Mixed Martial Artists have said about Bruce Lee I'm just weighing the facts on the matter. We have praise from accomplished fighters for how influential he was and some who knew him that say he was a good fighter but no actual record of his fights. If he actually fought world champions and beat them I think that would make his claim to be a great fighter more credible.

MMA fighters acknowledge Bruce lee was a great fighter, and for you to insinuate they haven't you are a bruce lee hater as ive said. Although they know bruce lee was a great, great fighter, theyd still like to know how well he'd do in UFC or whatever. Obviously thinking he would do well if he trained for a while.
Still doubting whether Lee sparred or fought champs outside tournaments? Dear, dear, you are a troubled soul.

When did Jim Kelly actually say that Bruce Lee was untouchable and when did Bob Wall say he beat champions in seconds? I'm not denying these statements out right what I'm doing is fact-checking. So far you've been to lazy to back up some of your claims with sources so I don't expect you to do it now but I would encourage you to back up those comments with a source.

why should I? People ass licking Lees abilities is common, and they have been doing it for 40 plus years. How much do you need? The whole world knows Bruce lee was a phenomenal martial artist and fighter. What will me giving you a quote do to make the world a better place?

You see you want to accept Bob Wall's (unverified) comments when he is praising Bruce Lee as a skilled fighter but not when he is criticizing him.

You're not being objective.

Are you claiming Bob wall criticised Lee after Lee died? Taking posthumous cheapshots, while tip toeing around someone when they were alive rarely impresses anyone.

He didn't say in the sport of Karate he said he couldn't beat them period and this is actually an interesting comment because it contradicts the other article where he allegedly said that Bruce sparred with and beat world champions. As far as I'm concerned we have a verified statement by Bob Wall saying one thing and an unverified statement saying another.

YOu are getting desperate now. When it comes to negative and positive quotes for Bruce lee you are heavily outnumbered. Positive comments as to how great bruce lee was is far superior to negative, so no wonder you are desperate and reaching. Norris don't street fight and neither did Lewis, so Bob is implying in karate.
Forget what bob implies what would happen, and concentrate on rather what did happen as Bob said.

[Ragnar Lothbrok]

another black guy hating on another asian fighter?

cant say im surprised.

[MysticNinjaJay]

There you go again with your if Bruce lee did what Bob Wall claims he did? Always try to doubt it don't you? And there you go trying to underestimate Lee with your claims you didn't imply he wasn't considered a decent fighter by his peers? Cant you use the the term great? Does your jealousy mean you cant bring yourself to use that word.

I can use the term great but your groveling for more respect for Lee is ridiculous.

It is hard to have more credibility as a fighter than Bruce lee already has. He is the god of martial arts, a bit of a icon, legend and cult figure. People think Lee is superhuman almost and he is revered.

He could have more credibility as a fighter if he competed professionally.

Make no make I think that Martial Artists who don't compete are still good fighters but it's questionable how good. Competition allows us to see what fighters are truly capable of. I don't blame Bruce Lee for not being interested in the point fighting tournaments of his day because they weren't close to real fighting but without competing his own fighting skills are in question by many.

I don't think that Bruce Lee was superhuman. It's not like he could bench press 10 times his bodyweight or run the 100 meter dash in 5 seconds. He was human and he was very fast and strong but not above and beyond everyone else. He didn't break any world records and some of the physical feats attributed to him are ridiculous but he was a very skilled Martial Artist.

MMA fighters acknowledge Bruce lee was a great fighter, and for you to insinuate they haven't you are a bruce lee hater as ive said.

I haven't heard many opinions on Bruce Lee as a fighter. Have you?

Bas Rutten is the only one I've seen whose really talked about it in a serious manner.

Most of the praise he gets is for his philosophy and influence on Martial Arts which was done through acting in movies not actually fighting.

Although they know bruce lee was a great, great fighter, theyd still like to know how well he'd do in UFC or whatever. Obviously thinking he would do well if he trained for a while.
Still doubting whether Lee sparred or fought champs outside tournaments? Dear, dear, you are a troubled soul.

The only source I know of is that Bob Wall interview and that hasn't been verified. Other than that Bob Wall did say he sparred with Bruce Lee but he didn't say how well he did.

why should I? People ass licking Lees abilities is common, and they have been doing it for 40 plus years. How much do you need? The whole world knows Bruce lee was a phenomenal martial artist and fighter. What will me giving you a quote do to make the world a better place?

It would give you some credibility in this thread which you are currently lacking.

Are you claiming Bob wall criticised Lee after Lee died? Taking posthumous cheapshots, while tip toeing around someone when they were alive rarely impresses anyone.

I don't think it's a cheap shot but rather an observation. If that's the real Bruce Lee than there is nothing wrong with stating facts.

You do value facts don't you?

YOu are getting desperate now. When it comes to negative and positive quotes for Bruce lee you are heavily outnumbered. Positive comments as to how great bruce lee was is far superior to negative, so no wonder you are desperate and reaching. Norris don't street fight and neither did Lewis, so Bob is implying in karate.
Forget what bob implies what would happen, and concentrate on rather what did happen as Bob said.

Bob didn't imply one way or another what type of fighting he was talking about. He could very well have meant a fight with no rules. Maybe he meant Karate rules but that wasn't clear. Either way he said he didn't believe Bruce Lee would beat them in a fight.

another black guy hating on another asian fighter?

cant say im surprised.

Racist trolls are not welcome in my thread.

[theGr8test]

People need to specify when they say "Pro Boxer".

Are we taking about a World Champion or someone who found a Boxing manager off the streets and is fighting for 500 bucks at Native American Casinos?

[hugh grant]

He could have more credibility as a fighter if he competed professionally.

Make no make I think that Martial Artists who don't compete are still good fighters but it's questionable how good. Competition allows us to see what fighters are truly capable of. I don't blame Bruce Lee for not being interested in the point fighting tournaments of his day because they weren't close to real fighting but without competing his own fighting skills are in question by many..

Its still killing you what Bob Wall said about bruce lees fighting ability doesn't it, how bruce lee beat him with ease.
The question of how good Lee was is in your own head only. Bruce lees skills are beyond reproach. The only question people have of Lee is they wish they could have seen him in a karate tournament and wondered what could have been?
His skills aren't doubted......beyond reproach, revered for his abilities.

I haven't heard many opinions on Bruce Lee as a fighter. Have you?


Most of the praise he gets is for his philosophy and influence on Martial Arts which was done through acting in movies not actually fighting..

All MMA fighters know Bruce lee was a great fighter and bad ass. They wish their peers would talk about them like bruce lees peers do for him. But there is so much more to bruce lee, that talking about how bad an ass he was is a little less interesting than other things about bruce lee.

The only source I know of is that Bob Wall interview and that hasn't been verified. Other than that Bob Wall did say he sparred with Bruce Lee but he didn't say how well he did.

It would give you some credibility in this thread which you are currently lacking.
.

YOu so desperately wish the Bob Wall interview never existed don't you, or doesn't exist, just like a bet you wish Lee wasn't born. Bruce lee haters lack credibility with their online anonymous antics. Forgive me for thinking Lee was one of the greatest fighters who ever lived because I heard his peers think he was. I don't lack credibility, you do, and you know it.

Bob didn't imply one way or another what type of fighting he was talking about. He could very well have meant a fight with no rules. Maybe he meant Karate rules but that wasn't clear. Either way he said he didn't believe Bruce Lee would beat them in a fight.
.

Still upset at Wall saying Lee beat him with ease are you?
Still upset that there are books with hundreds and hundreds of pages of quotes from his peers saying how bad he was are you? Heres a jim Kelly interview saying nobody could beat bruce lee and he was untouchable.

[MysticNinjaJay]

People need to specify when they say "Pro Boxer".

Are we taking about a World Champion or someone who found a Boxing manager off the streets and is fighting for 500 bucks at Native American Casinos?

I'm talking about world champions. Bruce Lee against any Boxer, from any weight class in any era.

Its still killing you what Bob Wall said about bruce lees fighting ability doesn't it, how bruce lee beat him with ease.
The question of how good Lee was is in your own head only. Bruce lees skills are beyond reproach. The only question people have of Lee is they wish they could have seen him in a karate tournament and wondered what could have been?
His skills aren't doubted......beyond reproach, revered for his abilities.

No one doubts he had exceptional Martial Arts skills they just wonder how good of a fighter he actually was. After seeing so many Martial Artists get their ass kicked in real fights you do have to question the ability of Martial Artists especially if you haven't seen them fight.

All MMA fighters know Bruce lee was a great fighter and bad ass. They wish their peers would talk about them like bruce lees peers do for him. But there is so much more to bruce lee, that talking about how bad an ass he was is a little less interesting than other things about bruce lee.

Question: How do you think Bruce Lee would do against modern Mixed Martial Artists in a real fight?

YOu so desperately wish the Bob Wall interview never existed don't you, or doesn't exist, just like a bet you wish Lee wasn't born. Bruce lee haters lack credibility with their online anonymous antics. Forgive me for thinking Lee was one of the greatest fighters who ever lived because I heard his peers think he was. I don't lack credibility, you do, and you know it.

Now you're just being melodramatic.

I haven't said anything in this discussion that could call my credibility in to question. You have. I asked you for sources and you made excuses for not providing them. That makes you look dishonest.

Still upset at Wall saying Lee beat him with ease are you?

When did he say that?

Still upset that there are books with hundreds and hundreds of pages of quotes from his peers saying how bad he was are you?

Nope. I've read Tao of Jeet Kune Do and I'm currently reading Bruce Lee: Between Wing Chun and Jeet Kune Do. I love reading about Bruce Lee.

Heres a jim Kelly interview saying nobody could beat bruce lee and he was untouchable.

Thank you.

That's all you had to do was provide a source.

Realistically no one is untouchable. I believe Jim Kelly when he says Bruce Lee was the man in sparring but in a real fight he could be hit just like anyone. The question is how high caliber of a fighter was he? Could he beat Boxers? I think so. Mixed Martial Artists are another story mostly because of the ground game but I think Bruce Lee was one of the best fighters in the world during his time.

[Syf]

Reading this here recently was like reading good cop bad cop lmao.

I don't really place much emphasis on eyewitness accounts of Bruce to determine if he could have killed a guy, ect. I am a big proponent of judging form with my own eyes. Bruce had impeccable form. He truly was a marvel in that regard. His footage on the heavy bag is mocked because he swings from the waist and has a "jumpier" style than is typically accepted in boxing. He passes the eye test to me though. Know who else had a jumpy swing from the waist style? Naseem Hammed.

Also discussions of whether Bruce had a chin are ultimately moot for street fighting.. He always preached defensive responsibility.. Either outmaneuvering or intercepting an opponent's strikes, then retaliating in kind. With the speed and dynamic explosiveness he was working with, this could all happen in a half a second or so... He was big on using maximum force and any tactic to end a fight as soon as possible. The philosophy being: The longer you are in a fight the more probable of sustaining an injury that degrades performance.

Bruce was a theorist primarily. He earned his bread with his martial skill, but he did not need to fight, aside from a few rumored instances behind closed doors, the stylistic points he earned with his brand of martial arts was enough. If any man could earn his keep that way instead of blood sport, he would. Floyd would stop fighting in a heartbeat if he could figure how to make the same $ in another way.

Too much debate is dedicated to the basic question "was Bruce a badass?" But, One final piece to this puzzle is fight choreography. There is a reason Bruce insisted on doing all of his own fight choreography in his movies. No one, to date, has managed to put so much actual martial application in a movie's fight sequences as Bruce did. There is a reason for that. Life imitates art and art imitates life. That's enough for me.