Comments Thread For: Mayweather vs Ortiz: The Same Old Song and Dance

[bluetuazon]

Here's the deal: Floyd is not the most skillful fighter of this generation, unless you define "generation" in a very narrow way. On All-Time Great lists many fighters that fought during the same years as Floyd are more highly regarded than he is. For example, his career overlapped with Roberto Duran--a top 10 all-time fighter. Floyd will never, ever be as highly regarded as Duran. Never. And he shouldn't. Duran was a way better fighter. If Mayweather refuses to meet Pacquiao in the ring and defeat him, Pacquiao will most certainly be ranked higher than him as well. Julio Cesar Chavez is above him, Roy Jones, Jr., Erik Morales . . . there are quite a few.

Let's leave the hyperbole alone. I think Mayweather will win this fight by decision but to compare Ortiz to Gatti and Baldomir? Really? That is not objective analysis by any standard. I love Gatti but Gatti was an incredibly flawed fighter. You need look no further than his fights with Ward for evidence of this. Ortiz is a much better boxer than him. To also throw Marquez and Hatton in there is a joke. Hatton had had one fight at welterweight, was out on his feet and generally got his ass kicked by Collazo (but got a bunk decision). Afterwards, he promised to never fight at welter again (then Floyd offered him money and he said yes). Marquez was coming up in weight 12 lbs for the fight after having come up 9 within the past year. Wow.

Of the people that you could say had the mantle of good to great fighter on their shoulders in their careers that Mayweather fought, only one was in his prime when Mayweather fought him: Zab Judah. And Judah looked damn good against Mayweather early in the fight even scoring a flash knockdown. De La Hoya was well past his prime and still got a split decision. It is not hard to believe that De La Hoya, in his prime (a la his fights with Mosley or Tito) would have won this fight. Mosley was a shot fighter. does anybody doubt this? Watch his fight against Mayorga BEFORE he fought Mayweather. Sure he scored a 12th round knockout, but the first 11 rounds Mosley looked like crap against Mayorga--a fighter that hasn't even looked decent for at least 5 years. Everybody was saying after Mayorga that Mosley should retire.

Objectively, one cannot definitively say that Mayweather is better than Pacquiao. Mayweather has fought a decisively lower caliber of competition at 147. Does he have a single win against a HOF fighter in his prime? If you stretch and say De La Hoya, ok. But that is a stretch. Pacquiao has many. Barrera twice, Morales twice, Marquez, Cotto. That Mayweather has yet to fight let alone beat a HOF caliber fighter at his peak speaks volumes about Mayweather's right to call himself an all-time great.

another great post!!

[adp023]

article translation....if you wanna see Floyd lose, this is NOT the PPV to buy!

[TaurusJ27]

It would be funny if the crowd at the fight starts cheering Pacquiao.

[CasualBoxingFan]

By Lyle Fitzsimmons - Stop me if you’ve heard this before… but not everyone likes Floyd Mayweather Jr.

The myriad e-mails I’ve already received this week – reacting to yet another caustic performance in HBO's latest “24/7” hype-o-mentary – are unanimous in their righteous indignation.

Get this… people think Floyd is an arrogant jerk.

No, really.

In the 2011 reprise of a 4-year-old “Network of Champions” recipe – previously remixed in 2007, ’09 and ’10 – people don't appear to enjoy the way Mayweather brashly taunts his foes. They don't enjoy the way he acts superior. And they don't enjoy the way he flaunts wealth and status.

So, disgusted by the very persona PPV execs covet, people are again eyeing a Saturday in Las Vegas as a chance for a talented, respectful gentleman type to rise up and clean “Money's” diamond-encrusted clock… and they’re willing to part with $59.95 for the chance to watch it happen.

They view handsome, articulate Victor Ortiz – who many discarded after in-ring surrender at 140 – as the latest perfect foil to Mayweather's street-thug anti-hero, and breathlessly hope the newly-minted 147-pound Cinderella can complete the job 40 others have tried and failed.

But lost in the fairy-tale image contrast is a “Vicious” truth.

Good guy or bad... Floyd Mayweather Jr. is the best fighter on the planet.

And there's really nothing – shy of entering the ring with a few dozen armed Golden Boy teammates – that Victor Ortiz can do about it.

Detractors one and all will point to Ortiz’s recent reincarnation, southpaw power and pre-fight demeanor to confidently say, “You know what? Floyd's never seen a guy like this before.”

They'll say it.

And bless their hopeful hearts, they might even mean it.

But they'll be dead wrong.

Again.

While the Ortiz specter is admittedly fresh-faced, it’s competitively far less daunting than previous 24/7 threats – Mssrs. De La Hoya, Hatton, Marquez and Mosley, for recollection’s sake – skillfully defused by Mayweather with nary a sweat, let alone a genuine chance of losing.

Ortiz, meanwhile, barely outran oblivion during a lone audition for the big time, narrowly wresting the WBC belt from Andre Berto on a night identified as much for Berto’s ill-timed slip-up as for any significant progress from Ortiz – who, lest we forget, entered as a sizable underdog. [Click Here To Read More]

I think this guys has an alt in this board. lol

[BillyBoxing]

People discredit Floyd YES, not Hopkins, not Pacquiao, not Mosley, not even Jean Pascal and this because Floyd is such an as.s hole, not because he's black, rich or whatever.

HATE IT OR LOVE IT, FLOYD IS A DISGUSTING CHARACTER.


I admit he's a great fighter. But *****s (so including Fitzi) need to admit their hero is A TOOL and that's why people hate on him, Floyd ain't no a victim.

[jbpanama]

Any of U Cat's think that FRAUD's Whiskers
are made of something diffrent than his HANDS???

SUSPECT WHISKERS, are a MAYNEVER FAMILY TRADITION!!!

At least Sr. and Uncle Rog, tested themselves against the BEST,
When the GREAT JC Chavez, K.O.'d Rog,in 2 at the Riv 9yr Old FRAUD
must have Resolved, Always to AVOID, fights that Spelled DEFEAT....

[mrjoeblive]

Maybe everybody might be right? May might be to fast, too smart, etc.,
but up to this point May hasn't face a prime, powerful, young and determined true WW, forget drained down DLH, or an out of his prime Mosley, or a hyped English JW (just remember what a LW Manny did to those three). a true WW which Vic has alway been and that what we saw in his last fight might have been draining himself to fight on a strong division of JW with top quality fighters, (Maidana, peterson, Harris, Campbel) Now if you also look at the quality of fighters each fought and at their respected level of their viability or decline you will notice this (Manny last four foes had a total of 16 losses, May last four foes had a total of 13, and Victor last four foes had a total of 10) This numbers reflect as to how much risk all three have taken and how much adversity they encountered by those fights. So before we knock anybody down let wait for Saturday. And one more thing there's one saying in football a great defense always wins a game (that is what everybody say's about May), but you can't win a game if the offense never gets of the field. (Hope Vic brings and offense)

to the bolded parts, floyd fought oscar at 154. he was not wt drained. manny wt drained him to 147, a wt he hasnt fought at in at least 8 yrs. when he lost to floyd all he could say was "i got beat" there was no excuse.

[mrjoeblive]

Here's the deal: Floyd is not the most skillful fighter of this generation, unless you define "generation" in a very narrow way. On All-Time Great lists many fighters that fought during the same years as Floyd are more highly regarded than he is. For example, his career overlapped with Roberto Duran--a top 10 all-time fighter. Floyd will never, ever be as highly regarded as Duran. Never. And he shouldn't. Duran was a way better fighter. If Mayweather refuses to meet Pacquiao in the ring and defeat him, Pacquiao will most certainly be ranked higher than him as well. Julio Cesar Chavez is above him, Roy Jones, Jr., Erik Morales . . . there are quite a few.

Let's leave the hyperbole alone. I think Mayweather will win this fight by decision but to compare Ortiz to Gatti and Baldomir? Really? That is not objective analysis by any standard. I love Gatti but Gatti was an incredibly flawed fighter. You need look no further than his fights with Ward for evidence of this. Ortiz is a much better boxer than him. To also throw Marquez and Hatton in there is a joke. Hatton had had one fight at welterweight, was out on his feet and generally got his ass kicked by Collazo (but got a bunk decision). Afterwards, he promised to never fight at welter again (then Floyd offered him money and he said yes). Marquez was coming up in weight 12 lbs for the fight after having come up 9 within the past year. Wow.

Of the people that you could say had the mantle of good to great fighter on their shoulders in their careers that Mayweather fought, only one was in his prime when Mayweather fought him: Zab Judah. And Judah looked damn good against Mayweather early in the fight even scoring a flash knockdown. De La Hoya was well past his prime and still got a split decision. It is not hard to believe that De La Hoya, in his prime (a la his fights with Mosley or Tito) would have won this fight. Mosley was a shot fighter. does anybody doubt this? Watch his fight against Mayorga BEFORE he fought Mayweather. Sure he scored a 12th round knockout, but the first 11 rounds Mosley looked like crap against Mayorga--a fighter that hasn't even looked decent for at least 5 years. Everybody was saying after Mayorga that Mosley should retire.

Objectively, one cannot definitively say that Mayweather is better than Pacquiao. Mayweather has fought a decisively lower caliber of competition at 147. Does he have a single win against a HOF fighter in his prime? If you stretch and say De La Hoya, ok. But that is a stretch. Pacquiao has many. Barrera twice, Morales twice, Marquez, Cotto. That Mayweather has yet to fight let alone beat a HOF caliber fighter at his peak speaks volumes about Mayweather's right to call himself an all-time great.

barrera??????? morales?????? both were far past their prime. a prime barrera would do to pac what he did to prince naseem hamed. and old morales beat him once and he said the gloves were like pillows and thats why he lost. and to talk about wts, why is he fighting JMM at 147????? why not fight at 140 a wt they both can make?????? and why so long between fight???? were they waiting for JMM to get old??? and what about all the good fighters pac could have fought and just didnt???? look at pacs rise through each division and you will see fighters he flat out avoided. i get tired of pac fans calling out top rank fighters as the fights floyd avoided. but thats all they can say is top rank fighters. while pac has avoided fighters from all promoters.

[mrjoeblive]

At least Sr. and Uncle Rog, tested themselves against the BEST,
When the GREAT JC Chavez, K.O.'d Rog,in 2 at the Riv 9yr Old FRAUD
must have Resolved, Always to AVOID, fights that Spelled DEFEAT....

jb, when floyd fought chico corales, he was a 3to 1 underdog. most pundits had floyd getting ko'd by the powerful chico. but we say what happened, 5 knock downs en-route to a ko. who has pac faced that was a true threat to him. besides floyd.

[mrjoeblive]

Roy Jones Jr. was considered the greatest fighter ever until he got exposed, Floyd Mayweather is better than average but how would he have fared against a prime Sugar Ray Leonard Or Tommy Hearns, I'm sure he would not have taken those fights. As soon as he thinks he might lose he'll come up with a lame excuse of steroid use. Joe Calzaghe was great, Bernard Hopkins is great, Sergio Martinez is great. Floyd fights smaller, slower fighters or who have personal problems. He will get his just like Roy Jones who is a virtual punching bag. What chicken **** finding an excuse not to fight Pacman. How can you put him in the same breath as Muhammed Ali, Leonard, Hearns, Calzaghe. Why don't he go up to fight Martinez like he makes other fighters come up in weight to fight him. Give him time and he will fall.

LOL like pac refusing to fight the "boxing rabbi" but signed up to fight a suspended fighter who never had a fight at 154. so he fight the cheater at 147 for the 154lb strap. who was re-instated by bob arums political power. lol refuse to fight the legit champ at 154 and make up a fight with a fighter who never deserved the opportunity. in fact pac nor tony deserved the chance for the 154lb belt as the did not prove them selves at that wt class first. that was almost like the WWE.