Comments Thread For: Mayweather vs Ortiz: The Same Old Song and Dance

[mshap]

PBF is and always has been a fighter that most fans love to hate -- doesn't really matter though -- everyone who has rooted against him throughout his career have come away disappointed time after time -- will be no different this Saturday

[maguirre]

Best fighter in the world is a duck. That's oxymoronic.

:-)

[hillbilly]

It is as simple as that, Floyd Mayweather, like it or not is the best fighter in the planet, he's the most skillful fighter this generation has seen, aprecite it or not, hate it or love it. Ortiz is a good young fighter but Mayweather is a born boxer. IMO he puts it best when he so brashly states it:"They're good, I'm God gifted". Nothing but the truth, harsh and ugly, but the truth nonetheless...

Here's the deal: Floyd is not the most skillful fighter of this generation, unless you define "generation" in a very narrow way. On All-Time Great lists many fighters that fought during the same years as Floyd are more highly regarded than he is. For example, his career overlapped with Roberto Duran--a top 10 all-time fighter. Floyd will never, ever be as highly regarded as Duran. Never. And he shouldn't. Duran was a way better fighter. If Mayweather refuses to meet Pacquiao in the ring and defeat him, Pacquiao will most certainly be ranked higher than him as well. Julio Cesar Chavez is above him, Roy Jones, Jr., Erik Morales . . . there are quite a few.

Let's leave the hyperbole alone. I think Mayweather will win this fight by decision but to compare Ortiz to Gatti and Baldomir? Really? That is not objective analysis by any standard. I love Gatti but Gatti was an incredibly flawed fighter. You need look no further than his fights with Ward for evidence of this. Ortiz is a much better boxer than him. To also throw Marquez and Hatton in there is a joke. Hatton had had one fight at welterweight, was out on his feet and generally got his ass kicked by Collazo (but got a bunk decision). Afterwards, he promised to never fight at welter again (then Floyd offered him money and he said yes). Marquez was coming up in weight 12 lbs for the fight after having come up 9 within the past year. Wow.

Of the people that you could say had the mantle of good to great fighter on their shoulders in their careers that Mayweather fought, only one was in his prime when Mayweather fought him: Zab Judah. And Judah looked damn good against Mayweather early in the fight even scoring a flash knockdown. De La Hoya was well past his prime and still got a split decision. It is not hard to believe that De La Hoya, in his prime (a la his fights with Mosley or Tito) would have won this fight. Mosley was a shot fighter. does anybody doubt this? Watch his fight against Mayorga BEFORE he fought Mayweather. Sure he scored a 12th round knockout, but the first 11 rounds Mosley looked like crap against Mayorga--a fighter that hasn't even looked decent for at least 5 years. Everybody was saying after Mayorga that Mosley should retire.

Objectively, one cannot definitively say that Mayweather is better than Pacquiao. Mayweather has fought a decisively lower caliber of competition at 147. Does he have a single win against a HOF fighter in his prime? If you stretch and say De La Hoya, ok. But that is a stretch. Pacquiao has many. Barrera twice, Morales twice, Marquez, Cotto. That Mayweather has yet to fight let alone beat a HOF caliber fighter at his peak speaks volumes about Mayweather's right to call himself an all-time great.

[jmmfan]

Blah, blah, blah. They're both human. Ortiz has a chance.

[Canelo Phresh]

Roy Jones Jr. was considered the greatest fighter ever until he got exposed, Floyd Mayweather is better than average but how would he have fared against a prime Sugar Ray Leonard Or Tommy Hearns, I'm sure he would not have taken those fights. As soon as he thinks he might lose he'll come up with a lame excuse of steroid use. Joe Calzaghe was great, Bernard Hopkins is great, Sergio Martinez is great. Floyd fights smaller, slower fighters or who have personal problems. He will get his just like Roy Jones who is a virtual punching bag. What chicken **** finding an excuse not to fight Pacman. How can you put him in the same breath as Muhammed Ali, Leonard, Hearns, Calzaghe. Why don't he go up to fight Martinez like he makes other fighters come up in weight to fight him. Give him time and he will fall.

pac would have been knocked out faster than mayweather by leonard and hearns.

[studentofthegam]

Here's the deal: Floyd is not the most skillful fighter of this generation, unless you define "generation" in a very narrow way. On All-Time Great lists many fighters that fought during the same years as Floyd are more highly regarded than he is. For example, his career overlapped with Roberto Duran--a top 10 all-time fighter. Floyd will never, ever be as highly regarded as Duran. Never. And he shouldn't. Duran was a way better fighter. If Mayweather refuses to meet Pacquiao in the ring and defeat him, Pacquiao will most certainly be ranked higher than him as well. Julio Cesar Chavez is above him, Roy Jones, Jr., Erik Morales . . . there are quite a few.

Let's leave the hyperbole alone. I think Mayweather will win this fight by decision but to compare Ortiz to Gatti and Baldomir? Really? That is not objective analysis by any standard. I love Gatti but Gatti was an incredibly flawed fighter. You need look no further than his fights with Ward for evidence of this. Ortiz is a much better boxer than him. To also throw Marquez and Hatton in there is a joke. Hatton had had one fight at welterweight, was out on his feet and generally got his ass kicked by Collazo (but got a bunk decision). Afterwards, he promised to never fight at welter again (then Floyd offered him money and he said yes). Marquez was coming up in weight 12 lbs for the fight after having come up 9 within the past year. Wow.

Of the people that you could say had the mantle of good to great fighter on their shoulders in their careers that Mayweather fought, only one was in his prime when Mayweather fought him: Zab Judah. And Judah looked damn good against Mayweather early in the fight even scoring a flash knockdown. De La Hoya was well past his prime and still got a split decision. It is not hard to believe that De La Hoya, in his prime (a la his fights with Mosley or Tito) would have won this fight. Mosley was a shot fighter. does anybody doubt this? Watch his fight against Mayorga BEFORE he fought Mayweather. Sure he scored a 12th round knockout, but the first 11 rounds Mosley looked like crap against Mayorga--a fighter that hasn't even looked decent for at least 5 years. Everybody was saying after Mayorga that Mosley should retire.

Objectively, one cannot definitively say that Mayweather is better than Pacquiao. Mayweather has fought a decisively lower caliber of competition at 147. Does he have a single win against a HOF fighter in his prime? If you stretch and say De La Hoya, ok. But that is a stretch. Pacquiao has many. Barrera twice, Morales twice, Marquez, Cotto. That Mayweather has yet to fight let alone beat a HOF caliber fighter at his peak speaks volumes about Mayweather's right to call himself an all-time great.

Are you really gonna try that Duran and Mayweather are the same generation fighters? And yes Pac has more HoFers on is res but there is no one on that resume that you would pick to beat Floyd. Not one guy at any point in their career.

[MindBat]

Best fighter in the world is a duck. That's oxymoronic.

:-)

The main problem is the congressman from Sarangani Province is not willing to prove that to the world.

He'd rather claim he "doesn't need Mayweather".

Go figure that one out.

[hillbilly]

Are you really gonna try that Duran and Mayweather are the same generation fighters? And yes Pac has more HoFers on is res but there is no one on that resume that you would pick to beat Floyd. Not one guy at any point in their career.

How do you define "generation"? Duran retired in 2001. Mayweather turned pro in 1996. If by generation you call it a 20 year age gap, from where do you start and stop? Generation is a nebulous term. So, until you offer me a real definition (not "I know it when I see it"), I consider two fighters that overlapped by six years within a generation.

The "no one on that resume you would pick to beat Floyd" argument is a terrible one. You don't make paper matchups in determining all-time greats. You look at who they actually fought and beat. Fact of the matter is Floyd had the opportunity to fight many prime HOF fighters. He could have fought Mosley when he was in his prime, De La Hoya, Cotto, Pacquiao, probably Morales and Barrera at 135. He didn't fight a single one in his prime even though they were there for matches to be made. He is going to be blasted in the future for his failure to make those fights and it is going to kill his legacy. He may well have beaten all those guys, but he didn't so he'll pay the price for not having fought them.

[hillbilly]

pac would have been knocked out faster than mayweather by leonard and hearns.

I agree. Hearns would have just destroyed Pacquiao--he's 6'1" with a 78" reach. Pacquiao has like a 67" reach. Hearns would have blasted him out of there. Mayweather would have gotten beaten from pillar to post by Hearns too, but he has good enough defense that he'd last awhile.

Leonard would have killed both of them as well. Leonard was 5'10" with a 74" reach. Pacquiao would have had no chance against him. Nor would Mayweather. What advantage would Mayweather have against a prime Leonard? Defense? Please. As much as I disliked Leonard's style, when Leonard wanted to mix it up, he could. Look at the end of the Hearns fight. If he could do that to Hearns, think what he'd do to Mayweather.

[bluetuazon]

Wow , what we have here is a writer like Marley who tells it like he see's it.

I see things different, in this respect, I hope you read this LYLE and make comments.

When you mentioned Balto

Gatti

Hatton

YOU LYLE are making these premier fights, standouts to measure by.

THEY were PISS POOR FIGHTS for that PURPOSE.

ARE these JR.s DEFINING FIGHTS ??????? Which is Jr.s Welter weight career defining FIGHT ?

I feel robbed if you say Balto. I am sure Balto is a good man, this is not about his character,,,but PLEASE don't insult my intelligence.

I feel embarassed if you say OLD WASHED UP GATTI. Please again don't insult my intelligence.

I have a real feeling because Jr said it you will say that its HATTON.

Bumrush Hatton.

Do you really honestly think Hatton was a welter weight, a top contender better than Margo or Cotto or no good Clottey,,,do you really??????

come on LYLE

You have bought into Aurora of JR.

YOU are comparing those three fighters to ORTIZ !!!!!,,,,,,,,,,,? WOW

You don't know boxing very well aye ?

There will always be the need in boxing for a "GREAT HOPE" doesn't need to be a WHITE man

could be a Asian

could be a black

race don't matter

could be anybody that will just beat the guy you want to see lose.

SO ?????? Thats been going on for a century now ,,,,,,,,,DUH !!!!!!!!!

What rock did you just come out from under.

What makes boxing rock is two guys pitting wills , skills, guts gameness wit and POWER in the middle to see who comes out on top.

ITS not about running , running and running and claiming to be the GOAT

Fighters Fight

FOR THE FIRST TIME EVER , JR will be tested by a young fresh WelterWeight WITH EXCELLENT POWER IN BOTH HANDs

not ponderous like Balto

Not Slow like Gatti and old

NOT SMALL with much less power like HATTON

But Quick Stronger, power to drop you at any moment,,,hence the first round with Berto

So it gives me great intrigue to see if Jr. is all what you and others have MADE him to be over the years.

Jr. Has never faced anyone in his career like ORTIZ.

I will be here to eat CROW,,,will YOU ?

great post!