Comments Thread For: Schaefer: Mayweather-Khan Would Fall in Nov. 2012

[DominiBox]

Says the guy with a Joe Calzaghe pic. That's irony!

I'm sure you know this but take a gander at the opposition Pac "selected". Its not like Bob Arum/Top Rank is dealing with other promoters either... lol Just saying as you sound ignorantly silly.

I think Bernard Hopkins has a different opinion !!
"I will never loso to a white boy"...

[4Corners]

Clottey....top 6 or 7 welter at the time !!
And yeah....they agreed NOW, so ?? Was Floyd willing to fight him just in 2009 and 2010 ?? That would be a great excuse dude !!

If Floyd don't ask for the tests to the other guys, it will look obvious !!
And the difference between those fighters and Manny Pacquiao is that Pac is a price fighter too, and don't have to submit to the will of Floyd.

Remember that !!....... that's how it is !!
I'll see you agreeing with "Pacquiao can't train in Phillipines" when they bring that one on the table. And you'll say "Floyd Sr. has nothing to do with it, he just gave his opinion."

Dude...you're i guy with ALVAREZ in your fav fighters !! WTF ?!?
I can see you know a lotttttt about boxing !!

Bravo 4 U !!

How come nobody is talking about what Koncz said????????

He is Pacquiao's closest adviser, and said that Manny still has never once agreed to do any testing within 14 days of the fight. We have Koncz saying that, while Arum says they will do testing up until fight day but no USADA involved at all. Then, we have Roach saying they will do anything it takes to make the fight happen. Then, we just have Pacquiao saying he will fight Mayweather next year....what is it??? We have 3 or 4 different opinions coming out of the Pacquiao camp, so what is it???

I must also ask, Pacquiao two huge demands and Mayweather agreed right away. Pacquiao asked for 8 oz gloves instead of the normal 10 oz, and he asked for 10 million dollars for every pound Floyd comes in over 147, and Mayweather agreed right away. Pacquiao has had numerous amounts of excuses as to why he won't agree, and I will not say he agreed until we get a unified response from the entire Pacquiao camp on what the hell is going.

Pacquiao's excuses: I am afraid of needles, but he has tattoo's all over himself. I will be weak giving blood too close to the fight....Really??? Okay whatever you say Manny. I will be at a disadvantage giving blood up until fight day, but Floyd is taking the EXACT SAME TEST at the EXACT SAME TIME. I don't have to give into his demands, I am a champion, and I shouldn't have to...Okay Manny, but we're trying to ensure a clean fight, and he already said yes to your two big demands.

Pacquiao has had 3 or 4 different excuses, and there's 3 or 4 different stories coming out of his camp about what he is willing to do.

[4Corners]

I think Bernard Hopkins has a different opinion !!
"I will never loso to a white boy"...

It's funny, when Floyd does something, EVERYONE diminishes what he did. People say "Floyd never beat anyone who was dangerous or any good". I am just going to list all the names of people both fights have beat that are all-time pretty good, good or great, and which were widely considered in their prime or latter prime. I will also list losses, as its only fair when you examin both careers of Pacquiao and Mayweather.

Manny Pacquiao: He lost to Torrecampo by KO in the 3rd in 96'. He lost to Singsurat by KO in the 3rd in 99'. He beat a latter-prime Ledwaba by TKO 6 in 01'. He beat a latter-prime Marco Antonio Barrera in 03' by TKO 11, which is his best win ever in my book. It was the best fight and most impressive on Pacquiao's resume. He fought a draw with a latter-prime Juan Manuel Marquez in 04', which was highly controversial. He declined to give both Barrera and Marquez rematches, until 4 years later for both fighters. He lost to a latter-prime Erik Morales in 05' by UD, which was probably the last time we saw a prime Morales. He beat a past prime-still great Morales by TKO 10 (you can argue he was prime, but Morales wanted to retire in 2006 because he said he didn't have it anymore. You can't say Morales was most definitely the same fighter after he got schooled by a nobody in Raheem before fighting Pacquiao again. Therefore, I can't say he was in his latter prime anymore, I am sorry). Morales was also coming off getting beat by Raheem, a nobody. He beat a latter-prime Oscar Larios in 06' by UD, who was also coming off getting knocked out by Vazquez. He then beat past prime-still good Morales in 06' again by KO 3. He then beat a prime Jorge Solis in 07' by KO 8. Then after 4 years, he finally gives Barrera a rematch, and beats a past prime Barrera by UD in 07'. He then decided to finally give Marquez a rematch in 08' and beat a past prime-still great Marquez by SD, which was very controversial yet again. He then declined to give Marquez a rematch again. Then he beat a past prime-still good David Diaz in 08' by TKO 9. Then he beat a past prime De La Hoya in 08' by TKO 8. De La Hoya fought at a weight that he hadn't been at in over 8 years, and had already been beaten by Mayweather a year and a half earlier. Oscar was past his prime against Mayweather, but there's not doubt he was better and had more left when Floyd fought him at 154. He then beat a past prime-still good Ricky Hatton in 09' by KO 2. Hatton was not the same fighter after being knocked out by Floyd 2 years earlier, thats clear. He had struggled against Lazcano and almost let a crappy Malignaggi go the distance with him. He then beat a past prime-still great Miguel Cotto in 09' by TKO 12. This was a very impressive win, even though Cotto was not the same after he lost to Margarito. True, Cotto was coming off getting knocked out by Margarito, a win over nobody Jennings, and struggling to a SD over Clottey, but Cotto was still a great fighter. He then beat a past prime-still good Clottey in 10' by UD.Clottey was never a fighter who should be mentioned with Mayweather or Pacquiao, but he's still an all-time pretty good fighter.He then beat a past prime Margarito in 10' by UD. Margarito was also never the same after the hand wrap thing and knock out loss to Mosley over a year earlier. Margarito was way past it, that showed, and he wasn't coming off good performances. Then Pacquiao beat a past prime Mosley, coming off getting dominated by Mayweather and a draw with Mora. Then Pacquiao has finally decided to give a past prime Marquez a rematch, 3 years later.

That's how I examin Pacquiao's career. A lot of pretty good, good, and great fighters. Also, plenty of fighters who were past prime or past prime but still good. In my opinion, Pacquiao hasn't fought a guy who was in his prime or latter-prime in his last 10 fights, if you can't his 3rd fight with Marquez. Pacquiao is an all-time great, just not as great as his followers and the media make him out to be.

[4Corners]

I think Bernard Hopkins has a different opinion !!
"I will never loso to a white boy"...

Floyd Mayweather Jr:

He beat a past prime-still good Genaro Hernandez in 98' by TKO 8. Hernandez had never been beaten at 130. He then beat a prime Angel Manfredy by TKO 2 in 98'. He then beat a prime unbeaten Diego Corrales in 01' by TKO 10, which is one of Floyd's most impressive wins ever. He then beat a latter-prime Carlos Hernandez in 01' by UD. Then he beat a latter-prime Jesus Chavez in 01' by TKO 9. He then beat a latter-prime Jose Luis Castillo by UD in 02', which was very controversial. Mayweather agreed to give him an immediate rematch, and won again in 02' by UD, this time with no controversy. He then beat a prime Phillip N'dou in 03' by TKO 7. N'dou hadn't lost in over 5 years. Mayweather then beat a past prime Arturo Gatti in 05' by TKO 6. Gatti was past his prime, but at least he hadn't lost in 3 years and was coming off 5 straight wins. He then beat a latter-prime Zab Judah in 06' by UD, but Judah was coming off an upset loss to Baldomir. Mayweather then beat a past prime Baldomir in 06' by UD. But, Baldomir was coming off a win over Judah and hadn't lost in 8 years. Mayweather then beat a past prime De La Hoya by SD, but went up to 154 to do so. Mayweather should have won the UD, just go look at how bad Oscar was out punched all night. Mayweather then beat a latter-prime and unbeaten Ricky Hatton in 07' by TKO 10. Hatton went up to 147, but he had been there before. A fighter doesn't go down in weight to fight someone for a title, you have to go up in weight to do so. And a Wleterweight champion doesn't go down to 140 to defend his title. Calling Hatton blown up is straight up hating on Mayweather because he beat the prime version of Hatton. Mayweather then retired, and came back to beat a past prime-still good Juan Manuel Marquez in 09' by UD. Marquez was up at 144 for the first time, and it clearly showed. Mayweather then beat a past prime Mosley in 10' by UD. Mosley was past it, but was coming off knockong Margarito out and he hadn't lost in over 3 years. Now Mayweather is fighting a prime Victor Ortiz, coming off a big win over unbeaten Andre Berto.

That's how I examin Mayweather's career. A lot of pretty good, good, and great names on his resume. A lot of past-prime but still good fighters, but more prime or latter-prime fighters then Manny.

[4Corners]

I think Bernard Hopkins has a different opinion !!
"I will never loso to a white boy"...

So both have great names on their resume.

Manny Pacquiao: Lehlohonolo Ledwaba, Marco Antonio Barrera, Erik Morales, Oscar Larios, Jorge Solis, Juan Manuel Marquez, David Diaz, Oscar De La Hoya, Ricky Hatton, Miguel Cotto, Joshua Clottey, Antonio Margarito, and Shane Mosley.

Floyd Mayweather Jr: Genaro Hernandez, Angel Manfredy, Diego Corrales, Carlos Hernandez, Jesus Chavez, Jose Luis Castillo, Phillip N'dou, Arturo Gatti, Zab Judah, Carlos Baldomir, Oscar De La Hoya, Ricky Hatton, Juan Manuel Marquez, and Shane Mosley.

Both are all-time greats. Both have had their flaws in their career choices. Mayweather probably should have fought Margarito in 2006, even though he split with Top Rank. Now knowing that Margarito was hand wrapping, I am glad he didn't, although he probably still would have beaten Margarito. Mayweather should have fought Cotto when Miguel was calling him out in 2008 while he was retired. To be fair though, Mayweather and his camp were calling Cotto out back in 2006 and the Cotto camp said Miguel wasn't ready for Floyd. Mayweather should have fought Pacquiao, but that by no means was his fault completely. I give 30% of the blame to Floyd, 30% to Manny, and 40% to BOB ARUM. Floyd shouldn't be such an ****** in his negotiating, and it probably would have happened.

Manny is not without bad career choices though. He should have given Barrera an immediate rematch after their fight in 2003, as well as Marquez after the draw in 2004. He also should have given Marquez a 3rd fight after the controverisl SD in 2008. Instead, Manny said that business was done, only to fight Marquez 3 and a half years later anyway. Why not fight him again in 08' or 09' when he had more left??? Manny also should have fought Mosley when he was calling him out in 2009, but instead he fought him after Floyd accepted to fight him and beat him. Manny also should have been calling for fights with Andre Berto in 2010, instead of Clottey or Margarito. He also could have fought Victor Ortiz in 2011, but instead he agreed to fight Marquez this fall. He agreed to fight Marquez after Ortiz said he wants Pacquiao and before Mayweather ever even agreed to fight Ortiz. Manny also should have just agreed to the 14 days in December 09' or January 10', not 5-6 months later when negotiations were already done. He should have agreed, and the fight would happen. Instead you have Koncz saying Pacquiao doesn't want testing within 14 days, Arum says he does but no USADA at all, and Roach says they'll do whatever it takes. Manny needs to tell us what he's willing to do. Arum and the Pacquiao camp lied when tehy said Manny agreed back in July 2010, Koncz cleared that all up last month when he said Manny never agreed at all. Margarito also let it slip back in 2010, that Arum had promised him the Pacquiao fight in November 2010 back in February 2010. So, was Arum really intending on making the Mayweather-Pacquiao fight at all????

I am just saying, both are great and have flaws, and you can't blame one or the other about the fight not happening. The biggest reason it hasn't happened yet is BOB ARUM.

[DominiBox]

So both have great names on their resume.

Manny Pacquiao: Lehlohonolo Ledwaba, Marco Antonio Barrera, Erik Morales, Oscar Larios, Jorge Solis, Juan Manuel Marquez, David Diaz, Oscar De La Hoya, Ricky Hatton, Miguel Cotto, Joshua Clottey, Antonio Margarito, and Shane Mosley.

Floyd Mayweather Jr: Genaro Hernandez, Angel Manfredy, Diego Corrales, Carlos Hernandez, Jesus Chavez, Jose Luis Castillo, Phillip N'dou, Arturo Gatti, Zab Judah, Carlos Baldomir, Oscar De La Hoya, Ricky Hatton, Juan Manuel Marquez, and Shane Mosley.

Both are all-time greats. Both have had their flaws in their career choices. Mayweather probably should have fought Margarito in 2006, even though he split with Top Rank. Now knowing that Margarito was hand wrapping, I am glad he didn't, although he probably still would have beaten Margarito. Mayweather should have fought Cotto when Miguel was calling him out in 2008 while he was retired. To be fair though, Mayweather and his camp were calling Cotto out back in 2006 and the Cotto camp said Miguel wasn't ready for Floyd. Mayweather should have fought Pacquiao, but that by no means was his fault completely. I give 30% of the blame to Floyd, 30% to Manny, and 40% to BOB ARUM. Floyd shouldn't be such an ****** in his negotiating, and it probably would have happened.

Manny is not without bad career choices though. He should have given Barrera an immediate rematch after their fight in 2003, as well as Marquez after the draw in 2004. He also should have given Marquez a 3rd fight after the controverisl SD in 2008. Instead, Manny said that business was done, only to fight Marquez 3 and a half years later anyway. Why not fight him again in 08' or 09' when he had more left??? Manny also should have fought Mosley when he was calling him out in 2009, but instead he fought him after Floyd accepted to fight him and beat him. Manny also should have been calling for fights with Andre Berto in 2010, instead of Clottey or Margarito. He also could have fought Victor Ortiz in 2011, but instead he agreed to fight Marquez this fall. He agreed to fight Marquez after Ortiz said he wants Pacquiao and before Mayweather ever even agreed to fight Ortiz. Manny also should have just agreed to the 14 days in December 09' or January 10', not 5-6 months later when negotiations were already done. He should have agreed, and the fight would happen. Instead you have Koncz saying Pacquiao doesn't want testing within 14 days, Arum says he does but no USADA at all, and Roach says they'll do whatever it takes. Manny needs to tell us what he's willing to do. Arum and the Pacquiao camp lied when tehy said Manny agreed back in July 2010, Koncz cleared that all up last month when he said Manny never agreed at all. Margarito also let it slip back in 2010, that Arum had promised him the Pacquiao fight in November 2010 back in February 2010. So, was Arum really intending on making the Mayweather-Pacquiao fight at all????

I am just saying, both are great and have flaws, and you can't blame one or the other about the fight not happening. The biggest reason it hasn't happened yet is BOB ARUM.

Good comment.... but what about Leonard "No Negotiations" Ellerbe and Floyd Mayweather Sr. ?

[sicko]

damn Golden Boy Promotions are disrespecting their OWN FIGHTER, what is the point of the Ortiz fight if they are already making plans for Mayweather vs Khan

[4Corners]

When will people start to realise Mayweather and Golden Boy are in cahoots to make as much off each other as possible and don't care about the Pac fight? DLH, Hatton, Marquez, Mosley, Ortiz, Khan...6 ****ing golden boy fighters in a row! And future opponents like Guerrero and Canelo probably being lined up lined up for after the Khan fight. Mayweather is the biggest joke of a welterweight champ I think I've ever seen.

If Mayweather-Pacquiao doesn't happen, I can guarantee you that Mayweather will pick far better opposition than Pacquiao will. If it doesn't happen, Floyd can fight a prime Guerrero, Alvarez, Khan, etc. While Manny and Arum are entertaining ideas about fighting a Cotto rematch. I mean c'mon!

Lets look at the last 5 fights of both Mayweather and Pacquiao.

Pacquiao: Hatton (2 years after Floyd, if you say he was still in his prime than you know NOTHING about boxing), Cotto (coming off getting KO by Margarito and almost losing to Clottey), Clottey (hadn't won a fight since 08' but at least he gave Cotto a good fight), Margarito (coming off getting KO by Mosley), and Mosley (1 year after Floyd after fighting a draw with SERGIO MORA). Now it's Marquez, 3 and a half years later again.

Mayweather: Baldomir (hadn't lost in 8 years and coming off an upset win over a prime Judah), De La Hoya (coming off a brief retirement and a win over Mayorga), Hatton (unbeaten), Marquez (coming off the SD loss to Pacquiao a year earlier, but does anyone think Marquez looked bad that fight?), and Mosley (coming off a KO win over Margarito and hadn't lost in 3 years). Now he's fighting Victor Ortiz who is coming off a win over unbeaten Berto.

Victor Ortiz is a better opponent than anyone Pacquiao has fought since Marquez in 2008. It's criminal for Floyd to fight Marquez in 09' at 144, because Marquez will be blown up, but Pacquiao does the EXACT SAME THING in 11' and its okay. I can guarantee when Pacquiao kills Marquez in November, people will praise Pacquiao like he is the greatest thing since Jesus himself. But when Floyd dominated him when he had much more left, and thats clear, he's criticized.

Floyd beats De La Hoya in 07', and goes up to 154 to do so, but he cherry picked an old guy. When in fact, before that fight was made, it was the fight the public and boxing was praying for. Manny beats him in late 08', and makes him go down to 144, and is praised like no other. Floyd beats a latter-prime and unbeaten Ricky Hatton, who had fought at 147 before, and he cherry picked a blown up 140 pounder. Manny beats him, 2 years later when Hatton looked like crap against Lazcano and Malignaggi, and is praised big time. Floyd beats and dominates Mosley, actually more so than Pacquiao did if punch stats mean anything, and he cherry picked the old guy. An old guy who was coming off knocking Margarito out. Manny beats him, 1 year after Floyd and coming off a draw with mora, and is praised yet again like he is the greatest ever.

When Mayweather was coming up and was 18-0, it was "he hadn't been challenged by anyone yet". He beat Genaro Hernandez and then it was "Hernandez was old and past it". People wanted him to fight Manfredy because he was in his prime. Floyd did and beat him, than it was "Manfredy was never really that good", even though Manfredy had just beaten a prime Gatti 11 months earlier. Then it was "Floyd's afraid to fight Corrales", but he beat him and than it was "Corrales was never really that good". Than Floyd it was "Floyd defends his Super Featherweight titles against nobody", but he beat prime versions of Carlos Hernandez and Jesus Chavez, which were both top rated contenders at the time. Than Floyd wanted to fight Castillo, and it was "Castillo isn't that good", and Floyd won the controversial UD. Than it was "Floyd should have lost, Castillo beat him, Castillo is better than Floyd, Floyd won do a rematch". Floyd gave him and IMMEDIATE REMATCH (something Pacquiao doesn't know how to do) and beat him convincingly, and than it was "Castillo still was never that good". Then it was "Floyd fights nobody good anymore", even though he then beat a prime top rated contender in N'dou who hadn't lost in 5 years. Than it was "Floyd is afraid to fight Gatti", and then he beat him and it became "Gatti ****** and he was terrible", even though thats who everyone wanted him to fight and Gatti hadn't lost in 3 years and had won 5 fights in a row. Than it was "Floyd is afraid to fight Judah, he can't handle southpaws". He beat him, and it was "Judah was never eally that good and he almost knocked him out". Than it was "Floyd is afraid to fight Oscar at 154", and he did and it became "Oscar sucks and is past it", even though that is the fight the public was crying for. Than it was "Floyd would lose to Hatton, he doesn't wanna fight Hatton", and he beat him, and than it was "Hatton was a blown up 140 pounder and was never any good". Than Mayweather retired, and it was "Floyd is afraid of Cotto", even though Mayweather had been calling him out in 2006 and Cotto said he wasn't ready for Floyd. Than Mayweather came back and it was "Marquez is a tough fight for your first fight back", and he beat him and it than was "Marquez ****** and was past it, he was blown up". Than it was "Floyd is afraid of Mosley", and than he beat him and it was "Mosley ****** and was past it". Now with Ortiz, who Pacquiao didn't sign up to fight when he had the chance, it was originally "Ortiz is a tough prime fighter, coming off a big win, its a tough first fight back and Ortiz has a chance", but its slowly turning into "Ortiz sucks and was never really that good anyway.

I guess Mayweather can't do anything right.

[WESS]

I think Bernard Hopkins has a different opinion !!
"I will never loso to a white boy"...

I bet if you asked Hop, he would tell you he didnt lose and that he wanted a rematch just like he did vs Pascal.

Also note that at the end of Round 11, Enzo didn't think Joe was winning.

Don't kid yourself, Joey didn't want that pascal beating rematch!


Also, what excuse out of the 8 from Pac did you believe?

[DominiBox]

I bet if you asked Hop, he would tell you he didnt lose and that he wanted a rematch just like he did vs Pascal.

Also note that at the end of Round 11, Enzo didn't think Joe was winning.

Don't kid yourself, Joey didn't want that pascal beating rematch!


Also, what excuse out of the 8 from Pac did you believe?

So, you say BHop was robbed against Calzaghe ??

Wow !!