Winning against MARG wont enhance the PACS legacy...imo

[Benny Leonard]

at 135 didn't fight the best. after this fight he jumped on an opportunity to fight de la hoya at welterweight.

at 140 Hatton was still the best and just put on awesome performance against paulie. I dont think Alexander had a title yet and Bradley just barely won the belt. Maidana isn't heard of and Ortiz is still being brought up. So Pa fought the best at the time at 140 and hit Hatton with a shot that would of knocked out a middleweight.

at 147 Pacquiao fought 2 of the top 5 welterweights in the world. Cotto and Clottey. Cotto just had and ugly win against Clottey, but who has looked good beating Clottey????? Plus Cotto had a arguement for being the number 1 welterweight at the time because h had a win over Mosley after Mosley knocked Margarito's head off. Clottey is a top 5 welterweight ex. champ who has close losses to Margarito and Cotto.

that was Paulie. He looked like crap against Lazcano. his punch resistance looked gone as well. Paulie isn't going to be able to test that.

Bradley specifically was the better choice at 140 than Hatton.

Cotto, destroyed by Margarito.

Clottey tends to fold in big fights. He folded in that fight. Cotto was hurt and just survived.

No, he had no argument at the time because he barely beat Mosley, and Cotto got Destroyed and lost his belt to Margarito who in return lost his belt by getting destroyed by Mosley so Mosley becomes the #1.
Only in Pac land where people forget what just happened and pic and choose their history was Cotto still #1.

Pac could have fought Mosley but ducked him.

Pac could have fought someone like Bradley but went the easier route with a KO'd Hatton.

Even style match-ups specifically, Bradley is tougher than that version of Hatton. Or just Hatton in general.

Mosley was "too good" according to Roach.

[cupocity303]

But still destroyed already so you are going to get what's left of him which means, that's not the same Margarito.

But years ago the fight didn't happen. He is only fighting him now because Margarito was softened up.

Oscar wasn't picked apart and destroyed. He got taken down by a a single body-shot. That's not the same as getting pulverized from round 1 and getting taken out by body and HEAD shots. Margarito didn't even put up a good fight against Shane. Shane just beat the living **** out of him.

Well i'm not holding that against him. Consider this.

He fought Delahoya in December 2008, jumping up two weight classes, for a career high payday...who would turn that down? That was his first 147 fight.

Margarito just got done fighting Cotto in July of that year and was already scheduled to return on Januray 2009, a month after Pacquiao beat Delahoya. It was either gonna be a Cotto rematch or Mosley, and we all know what happened.

I'm not sure how you hold that against him considering the dates I just outlined. The only reason he jumped at the opportunity to fight at 147, was because of the payday against Oscar and Margarito got his ass kicked a month after that. He didn't exactly wait for The Tijuana Tornado to lose before facing him, it just happened.

[cupocity303]

Also, if you're holding it against him for fighting Cotto, who struggled against Clottey and at a catchweight at that.

Then you can't hold it against him for fighting the guy who made Cotto struggle in Clottey, no catch-weight this time, but at 147, and dominating him for 12 rounds.

It's sort of the equivalent of Floyd's Judah then Baldomir victories. You may criticize Floyd for fighting Judah coming off a loss, but surely can't hold it against him for fighting the guy who beat Judah, for the Linear Title at that.

[Benny Leonard]

Well i'm not holding that against him. Consider this.

He fought Delahoya in December 2008, jumping up two weight classes, for a career high payday...who would turn that down? That was his first 147 fight.

Margarito just got done fighting Cotto in July of that year and was already scheduled to return on Januray 2009, a month after Pacquiao beat Delahoya. It was either gonna be a Cotto rematch or Mosley, and we all know what happened.

I'm not sure how you hold that against him considering the dates I just outlined. The only reasoned he jumped at the opportunity to fight at 147, was because of the payday against Oscar and Margarito got his ass kicked a month after that. He didn't exactly wait for The Tijuana Tornado to lose before facing him, it just happened.

Yes, but when your fight-time weight is 145+ {Pac} and
your opponent is 145+ {Oscar} on fight-night, the weight division it is held at becomes an illusion. Plus, Oscar was dead because of it. But yes, there was good rea$on to take the fight. Don't blame him for that. But let's not act like that was the same past prime JrMW that Floyd fought or even remotely close to the original WW version of Oscar that fought the likes of Tito and Mosley.



The fight with Margarito was never signed. Given the nature of the choices, and Roach even saying he didn't want Pac to fight Margarito, I wouldn't have held my breath for that fight to come off. Pac moved up for one reason, O$car. The rest that was talked about was him moving back down. One shot deal.

[Benny Leonard]

Also, if you're holding it against him for fighting Cotto, who struggled against Clottey and at a catchweight at that.

Then you can't hold it against him for fighting the guy who made Cotto struggle in Clottey, no catch-weight this time, but at 147, and dominating him for 12 rounds.

It's sort of the equivalent of Floyd's Judah then Baldomir victories. You may criticize Floyd for fighting Judah coming off a loss, but surely can't hold it against him for fighting the guy who beat Judah, for the Linear Title at that.

Yes, I can because Clottey struggled against a post-Plastered Cotto. And there were better fighters to fight. LIKE SHANE MOSLEY.

I was against Floyd fighting Judah. I said that a while back. I've ripped Floyd's 147 career as basically being a waste of time because he fought Mitchell, and Judah...and didn't fight the best of the rest at the time. Baldomir was a must, very true, I was for that, but he didn't fight anyone else of note at 147 that he could have after.


The funny thing about this all is that when I ripped Floyd in the past, I really didn't get heat from the *****s. I would just get some questions and debate but nothing to serious.
But when I ripped Pac, all hell broke loose.

[cupocity303]

Yes, but when your fight-time weight is 145+ {Pac} and
your opponent is 145+ {Oscar} on fight-night, the weight division it is held at becomes an illusion. Plus, Oscar was dead because of it. But yes, there was good rea$on to take the fight. Don't blame him for that. But let's not act like that was the same past prime JrMW that Floyd fought or even remotely close to the original WW version of Oscar that fought the likes of Tito and Mosley.



The fight with Margarito was never signed. Given the nature of the choices, and Roach even saying he didn't want Pac to fight Margarito, I wouldn't have held my breath for that fight to come off. Pac moved up for one reason, O$car. The rest that was talked about was him moving back down. One shot deal.

Well you're sort of agreeing with me. I didn't make any points regarding his Delahoya win and whether he was weight drained or not (obviously he was). So not sure why you felt the need to go there.

I simply mentioned Oscar based on the time frame to make the point that there was no way Pacquiao was avoiding Margarito, and only decided to fight him because he lost. The dates just argue against that. He fought Oscar in December 08, and Margarito lost in January 09. You simply can't say whether he would've fought Margarito before he lost because he lost soon after.

It's just that Pacquiao has done surprisingly better than expected against naturally bigger opponents than Arum or Roach had expected and thus he is continuing at 147. No shock with Arum's agenda, he wants to keep it in-house and thus no other options against Bradley or someone else.

Still no reason to completely knock this fight.

[cupocity303]

Yes, I can because Clottey struggled against a post-Plastered Cotto. And there were better fighters to fight. LIKE SHANE MOSLEY..

This is kind of ******, so fighting Cotto and fighting Clottey was a bad idea.

Ironically both of them were legitimate Top 10 Welterweights at that time.


So Boo-hoo, he didn't fight Mosley, so what. Kind of a high standard you've set for him, and so specific too. "He should've fought Margarito before he lost", even though Margarito lost right after his Delahoya fight. "Clottey and Cotto both bad wins", even though they're top legitimate Welters.

But the only acceptable opponent in Benny's view was Mosley. You gotta love overly critical, cherry picking critics.

[Benny Leonard]

Well you're sort of agreeing with me. I didn't make any points regarding his Delahoya win and whether he was weight drained or not (obviously he was). So not sure why you felt the need to go there.

I simply mentioned Oscar based on the time frame to make the point that there was no way Pacquiao was avoiding Margarito, and only decided to fight him because he lost. The dates just argue against that. He fought Oscar in December 08, and Margarito lost in January 09. You simply can't say whether he would've fought Margarito before he lost because he lost soon after.

It's just that Pacquiao has done surprisingly better than expected against naturally bigger opponents than Arum or Roach had expected and thus he is continuing at 147. No shock with Arum's agenda, he wants to keep it in-house and thus no other options against Bradley or someone else.

Still no reason to completely knock this fight.

Yes there is because fights like this is what is wrong with boxing.

There are better fighters to fight and Pac isn't doing it...just like Floyd has ****ed us on better fights.

Williams at 154 or Martinez at 154 is better.

Bradley and Alexander is better. Bradley is already there at 147 and Alexander I do think would move up a division if he were to get the challenge from Pac.

Instead, I'm going to watch an opponent that was a known cheater who was DESTROYED by Shane Mosley and hasn't looked as good.

Angulo would be a better fight than Margarito.

I would say Berto but he didn't quite impress me last time out despite the KO win. I'm not sure how I feel about that.
Although he does have a title and hasn't been KO'd yet so...

[Benny Leonard]

This is kind of ******, so fighting Cotto and fighting Clottey was a bad idea.

Ironically both of them were legitimate Top 10 Welterweights at that time.


So Boo-hoo, he didn't fight Mosley, so what. Kind of a high standard you've set for him, and so specific to. "He should've fought Margarito before he lost", even though Margarito lost right after his Delahoya fight. "Clottey and Cotto both bad wins", even though they're top legitimate Welters.

But the only acceptable opponent in Benny's view was Mosley. You gotta love overly critical, cherry picking critics.

YES, when you have Shane Mosley calling you out. And let's not act like that was a prime Shane Mosley either. He ducked a past prime Shane Mosley. Imagine if that were a prime Mosley, a prime Oscar at 147? NO WAY does Pac even enter the division.

So what. There aren't that many good fighters today in boxing to load up a division.

If Pac is the best like people claim, why not fight the best?
Same goes for Floyd.

Pac collected a paper title at 147 and made no challenge to the best fighter in the division.

At 154, he is doing the same. He could have called out Martinez who should still be regarded as the best in that division even though he is jumping around in two divisions. Martinez said he would take the fight.

Again, this is why the Old Timers had it harder. Less divisions and less belts...only one belt to be exact.

[cupocity303]

YES, when you have Shane Mosley calling you out. And let's not act like that was a prime Shane Mosley either. He ducked a past prime Shane Mosley. Imagine if that were a prime Mosley, a prime Oscar at 147? NO WAY does Pac even enter the division.

So what. There aren't that many good fighters today in boxing to load up a division.

If Pac is the best like people claim, why not fight the best?
Same goes for Floyd.

Pac collected a paper title at 147 and made no challenge to the best fighter in the division.

At 154, he is doing the same. He could have called out Martinez who should still be regarded as the best in that division even though he is jumping around in two divisions. Martinez said he would take the fight.

Again, this is why the Old Timers had it harder. Less divisions and less belts...only one belt to be exact.

Lets see how one can turn it and put a negative spin to those opponents you want him to face, as you just did here for his Oscar, Hatton, Cotto, Clottey wins.


Pacquiao defeats Williams - "Williams just came off of a war with Martinez and he was weight drained at 147

Pacquiao defeats Martinez - "Came off of a war Vs Williams and just fought at 160. At age 35, he probably struggled at 154".

Pacquiao defeates Bradley - "Bradley wasn't even a established fighter, he got knocked down vs Kendall Holt twice (Who?), and beat a buncha nobodies in Peterson & Abregu.



I don't think there is a fighter out there without some baggage for a armchair warrior not to spin it and make it look bad. GOOD NIGHT, i'm going off to bed.