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The proof then- Manny only defeated fighters in decline.

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    #31
    "I want Mayweather right now. I wanted him first the whole time. I mean, let's face it, that's the fight the whole world wants to see; the fight I want to see. I think he's the easiest fight of the three. He's not that big. He's not that strong. He breaks down quickly. He's been off for two years. You know, at 135 and 140, he might have been great, but at 47 and 54, I don't see the greatness...I think Manny will knock him out."

    Roach > *

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      #32
      Originally posted by PinoyZoi View Post
      How is Cotto in decline when he won against Mosley and Joshua Clottey after he got beat by Margarito?? Hell dont even discredit other boxers when your hero Floyd wont even fight em.
      Sigh.. Okay, I'm learning. You're all idiots.

      For the last time- I do not think Cotto is in decline. This is not about what I think.

      I am bringing up what FREDDIE ROACH THINKS. I want to discuss why he is not held responsible for what he says, and how what he says can matter, and even take some of the shine away from his fighter's victories.

      Really,.. turn off the **** and listen.

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        #33
        Originally posted by JudeTheObscure View Post
        I am bringing up what FREDDIE ROACH THINKS.
        "You know, at 135 and 140, [Floyd] might have been great, but at 47 and 54, I don't see the greatness...I think Manny will knock him out."




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          #34
          Originally posted by JudeTheObscure View Post
          Words can come back and be used against you. Everyone uses Floyd's statements against him- so Roach shouldn't be held accountable for what he says on a constant basis?

          And come on. Whether you like Oscar or not- how long has he been at this? You think THAT is why he lost? Because Freddie planted a seed in his mind? Thats the most ridiculous act of stretching something ever.

          Freddie has now said before each of Manny's last three fights- that the guys he was fighting were damaged.

          I am not disrespecting Manny. I am saying, Freddie didn't do Manny any favors with those comments. But, if you believe what Freddie says- then these comments mean something. Whether you want them to or not.
          Damn, don't get so defensive.
          I said nobodys mad at you.
          As far as Roach's comments go like I said it's mind games. Roach also says what he really thinks like when he said Cotto would be Pacs toughest fight. But you go on hearing what you want. He also said Floyd is the easiest fight. So if he beats him does that discredit that win also?
          Another case of your selective hearing, or is it reading? I never said it was the reason DLH lost. When he beat DLH of course the talking isn't what beat him. It was Pac hitting him hard, fast and repeatedly. The doubt that he couldn't do anything about it didn't help.
          I know your not disrespecting Pac, just trying to discredit him. Take what ever you want from Roach's comments. I doesn't matter to me.

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            #35
            Roach is upfront with how he does things and where fighters are at in their career. He is one of the most honest in the business when it comes to that. It's one of the reasons I like that part of him...although I may not agree with how he does things.
            As a competitor I would want to beat them at their best and if they are past their best and I don't have much of a choice not to fight them, say Mosley right now because he has the lineal title...at least make sure they are healthy.

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              #36
              Originally posted by JudeTheObscure View Post
              What does Emmaunel Steward have to do with THIS? It doesn't matter what he said, or you said, or I said- Freddie Roach said it. Freddie Roach is his trainer. Now, I want to stress- I mean "proof" as in, he declared it, its a recorded statement. I personally don't agree with Freddie- I think Manny's win over Cotto was impressive. I am just holding Freddie Roach to his statements. Instead of all of your responses being "you hate" or "this other guy said this other thing" why don't you respond directly to what MANNYS TRAINER SAID. Thanks.
              you're talkin in circles. what do i respond to what freddie said? he said what he have to say, that's it! do i believe it? no. cotto's is only 28 and manny has been in a lot of wars too. is manny shot then? no.

              i presented steward coz he's a hof trainer too to balance your so called 'proof'.

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                #37
                "The 'hate and disrespect' is part and parcel of releasing a post claiming that every great fighter Pacquaio has fought has been on the decline, after a year of stunning performances."

                There is not hatred nor disrespect in what I did, which was to bring up comments made by said fighter's trainer.

                "every great fighter Pacquaio has fought has been on the decline"- what? where do I say this? you are the one manipulating things to your own end, my friend. Every fighter? WTF?? My post is very direct about taking Roach to task about his comments prior to Manny's PAST THREE FIGHTS.



                "And your 'proof' amounts to comments from a boxing trainer. Please tell me how is that proof?"

                This is the boxing trainer of said fighter. Who some argue brought him to this level of greatness.

                "But the nature of your post, coupled with the image in your avatar, immediately led me to believe that the excitement Manny is creating compared to Floyd is irritating you, so you felt the need to lower Pacman to raise up Money."

                This is your perception and your opinion, so let me be the opposite of how you have been with your accusations towards me and clarify with respect that this was not my intent. I am glad Manny is creating excitement. I am a fan of the PacMan. Imagine that! Someone who can like BOTH fighters, and doesn't subscribe to an us vs. them club mentality.

                Noone is lowering Pacman- EXCEPT FOR FREDDIE ROACH'S STATEMENTS.

                That is my point.

                Comment


                  #38
                  Originally posted by SRcrit View Post
                  Damn, don't get so defensive.
                  I said nobodys mad at you.
                  As far as Roach's comments go like I said it's mind games. Roach also says what he really thinks like when he said Cotto would be Pacs toughest fight. But you go on hearing what you want. He also said Floyd is the easiest fight. So if he beats him does that discredit that win also?
                  Another case of your selective hearing, or is it reading? I never said it was the reason DLH lost. When he beat DLH of course the talking isn't what beat him. It was Pac hitting him hard, fast and repeatedly. The doubt that he couldn't do anything about it didn't help.
                  I know your not disrespecting Pac, just trying to discredit him. Take what ever you want from Roach's comments. I doesn't matter to me.
                  It's not mind games.

                  Roach wasn't the only one that said Cotto wasn't the same. Others have said it. Atlas even pointed it out.
                  Look at the tough fights he was in at 140...then at 147. That doesn't equal prime after you get your brain beat in by Margarito and don't look so hot against Clottey.

                  ODLH: Roach is upfront with wanting to take something out of the fighters before they step into the ring. He talks about this quite candidly in interviews. That's why he wanted both Floyd and Shane to come down in weight as well if they were to fight Pac.

                  Oscar showed up at 147 on fight-night. When was the last time he did that?

                  Now, all their faults if they agree with it but it doesn't take away from the fact that they are not going to be at their best. They basically lost in negotiations against Roach.
                  Smart business. Winning the battle before the battle actually begins.

                  Even Morales came back down in weight...although I think it may have only been the third fight where Morales wanted to go up but Roach said no. Not sure.

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                    #39
                    Jude, do yu really belive FMJ fought a prime Oscar?

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                      #40
                      Originally posted by Bogler View Post
                      you're talkin in circles. what do i respond to what freddie said? he said what he have to say, that's it! do i believe it? no. cotto's is only 28 and manny has been in a lot of wars too. is manny shot then? no.

                      i presented steward coz he's a hof trainer too to balance your so called 'proof'.
                      Everybody is different with regards to how they age and how they deal with punishment.

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