Comments Thread For: David Benavidez could move to cruiserweight for Zurdo Ramirez, says father-trainer

[factsarenice]

He can go to cruiserweight, because he would be fighting at his more natural weight 'In the Cruiserweight Division'.

I have always compared David Benavidez to Toney Bellew 'Bellew used to fight at 175 pounds, because he wanted the acute advantage of being the big man on fight night. After years of forcing his body, to fight at an unnatural weight eventually? Toney Bellew realized that the accumulative damage he was inflicting upon himself due to using weight draining tactics, was decreasing his overall boxing game dramatically'.

Toney Bellew moved up into the Cruiserweight Division's with increased well being and overall conditioning 'Bellew produced all of his career best performances in the Cruiserweight division. Bellew became the WBC Cruiserweight Champion, and fought for the Lineal and Undisputed titles vs Oleksandr Uysk'.

Note: David Benavidez in my opinion is approaching potentially a very similar stage of his career 'But in all honesty? I am not so sure skill for skill, I don't think Benavidez is as good as Toney Bellew. Bellew to his credit had solid power, and his pure skill for skill boxing was of a very good level. This was shown in his fight vs Oleksandr Uysk, while Bellew was in that fight? He was able to compete with Uysk in a skill for skill boxing match'.

Currently David Benavidez is competing in the 175 pound division 'And the reason why he has moved up into this division, is because his weight draining tactics and the acute advantage's from those methods? Are in my opinion no longer sustainable while competing in Super Middle Weight Divisions. Weight draining tactics over the long term, have negative effects on the overall well being and conditioning of fighters'.

So, when I see this kind of talk in regards to Benavidez 'People need to really put things into perspective? Benavidez moving up into the Light Heavyweight or Cruiserweight Division's, is not quite the same as Manny Pacquiao and Floyd Mayweather Junior moving up through the divisions'.

To conclude: David Benavidez at some point in his career 'Potentially may be forced to fight in the Cruiserweight Division. But the question is? What will his state of being be at that stage of his career, after many years of weight draining himself extensively. And being another one of those poster boys, for the toxic weight draining culture in this modern boxing era'.

David Benavidez is a solid fighter, but? I don't rate him as some sort of Monster fighter 'If Benavidez was not fighting in this modern era, it would if been very difficult for him to acquire the same level of reputation that he has today in boxing. Because he would of been forced to fight at his more natural weight, during boxing era's which used the Same Day Weigh In rule'.

Benavidez is definitively a World level fighter, and he has reached this level mainly by relying on being the big man on fight night 'Outside of this, I have not detected much elite level skills in his game' etc.

You make a good points and I agree, nobody will move through weight classes like Manny, Manny was an anomaly.

David Benavidez is not Manny but he can fight at 168 and 175 because like Diego Corrales and Paul Williams, he's tall but his shoulders are narrow and his bones are small for his height. Although tall, David doesn't shrink to the point of zero body fat or drying himself out like some of the more egregious weight bullies....and there are a lot of them.

The problem David will have at higher weighs is that he'll need to contend with much bigger, stronger guys. At 175+ he'll face guys that are cutting weight just to make Light heavyweight and Cruiser-weight and simply grinding a big, strong guy to make up for lost rounds isn't going to be enough, David can't lose rounds like he did with Plant. I know prime Kelly Pavlik always said David was tough sparring and would some day be world class, but he'll first need to prove it by getting past a super strong guy like David Morrell. Personally, I favor Benavidez but I wouldn't be shocked if Morrell caught him during an exchange and put him down for the first time.

[Oracle01]

Benavidez is definitively a World level fighter, and he has reached this level mainly by relying on being the big man on fight night 'Outside of this, I have not detected much elite level skills in his game' etc.

Is being second on compubox punch accuracy demonstrating an elite skill of accuracy?

Educate yourself before speaking ignorant nonsense. David is one of the most skilled and complete fighters in the world, and if you can't see it you don't understand boxing.

[Boro]

Is being second on compubox punch accuracy demonstrating an elite skill of accuracy?

Educate yourself before speaking ignorant nonsense. David is one of the most skilled and complete fighters in the world, and if you can't see it you don't understand boxing.

It'd be an impressive stat if he fought elite competition but he hasn't, at one point guys like Wilder sat atop that list until he finally fought someone with a pulse.

Benavidez hasn't fought anyone decent apart from Plant and that's even debatable.

And despite Gvozdyk being good he hadn't competed at a decent level for 5 years so he certainly doesn't count as elite competition.

[Superbee]

LOL... So Benavidez is already finding a way out to avoid getting destroyed and humiliated @ 175 ?

[Oracle01]

It'd be an impressive stat if he fought elite competition but he hasn't, at one point guys like Wilder sat atop that list until he finally fought someone with a pulse.

Benavidez hasn't fought anyone decent apart from Plant and that's even debatable.

And despite Gvozdyk being good he hadn't competed at a decent level for 5 years so he certainly doesn't count as elite competition.

Andrade was an undefeated 2 division champ, world champion gold medalist, and olympian, a slick awkward southpaw, but he does not even count as decent to you? lol. Govzdyk not even decent? Dirrell 2x wbc champion was not decent? You haters make me laugh, and have the worst logic. David has fought 5 current or former wc's thats more than GGG did in his whole career yet he rated p4p for beating nobody.

Plant and Andrade are two of the best defensive fighters in the sport, yet David tattooed them. Barely any fighter in the sport has fought anyone elite. Bam only fights old men, no elites but everyone raves about him. How many elite fighters has Canelo beaten?

[The D3vil]

I like it.

Benny's a big dude. He looks a lot bigger than 6'2".

I think he's closer to 6'4" than he is 6'2".

He'd probably carry the weight pretty well.

[J.C. Superstar]

I like it.

Benny's a big dude. He looks a lot bigger than 6'2".

I think he's closer to 6'4" than he is 6'2".

He'd probably carry the weight pretty well.

I think the opposite, feel like Premier Boxing Champions tends to increase the height of fighters from what it is compared to the actuality. With Plant being closer to 6'0 or perhaps a bit lower than 6'1.

David Benavidez seems closer to 6'1 (+1⁄2 in?) compared to Zurdo Ramirez's height of 6 ft 2+1⁄2 in. Gvozdyk also is 6'2.



Here is in comparison to his stablemate, Diego Pacheco whose like 6'4 and Daniel Blancas 6'3.


Think Benavidez has to work on building up his frame for his punching power and his resistance instead of mostly cutting water weight during training camp. He seemed fit at 168 against Lemiux, Plant and Andrade despite the excessive skin, while against Gvozdyk he seemed to be more out of shape.

Think he shouldn't be jumping a division 25+ pounds after moving up to 175.

[Boro]

Andrade was an undefeated 2 division champ, world champion gold medalist, and olympian, a slick awkward southpaw, but he does not even count as decent to you? lol. Govzdyk not even decent? Dirrell 2x wbc champion was not decent? You haters make me laugh, and have the worst logic. David has fought 5 current or former wc's thats more than GGG did in his whole career yet he rated p4p for beating nobody.

Plant and Andrade are two of the best defensive fighters in the sport, yet David tattooed them. Barely any fighter in the sport has fought anyone elite. Bam only fights old men, no elites but everyone raves about him. How many elite fighters has Canelo beaten?

Stating facts is not hate, Andrade beat who for his belts again? Kautondokawa and Martisosyan? And again Andrade is slick against stiffs...

Your reading comprehension fails you when it comes to Gvozdyk.

And Dirrell is awful he's even worse than Andrade for his 2x reign in the 4 belt era, Bika and Yıldırım is how he became a 2x champion.

Lets be real here being a champion in the 4 belt era doesn't mean much.

Benavidez being another prime example of that he became a champion the first time against Gavril and then Dirrel after his disgraceful antics.

[PRINCEKOOL]

You make a good points and I agree, nobody will move through weight classes like Manny, Manny was an anomaly.

David Benavidez is not Manny but he can fight at 168 and 175 because like Diego Corrales and Paul Williams, he's tall but his shoulders are narrow and his bones are small for his height. Although tall, David doesn't shrink to the point of zero body fat or drying himself out like some of the more egregious weight bullies....and there are a lot of them.

The problem David will have at higher weighs is that he'll need to contend with much bigger, stronger guys. At 175+ he'll face guys that are cutting weight just to make Light heavyweight and Cruiser-weight and simply grinding a big, strong guy to make up for lost rounds isn't going to be enough, David can't lose rounds like he did with Plant. I know prime Kelly Pavlik always said David was tough sparring and would some day be world class, but he'll first need to prove it by getting past a super strong guy like David Morrell. Personally, I favor Benavidez but I wouldn't be shocked if Morrell caught him during an exchange and put him down for the first time.

The real litmus test for David Benavidez as an all round boxer, will be like YOU said 'When he encounters fighters who can also compete against him, in the areas of his game where he usually has a advantage in the lower weight classes. I.E Brute Strength, Power, Aggression.

But Benavidez's aggression in my opinion, may be influenced highly by the fact? That he knows he is the big man on fight night 'Without this acute advantage, and up against naturally stronger fighters in the Light Heavyweight Divisions and above. Benavidez may not be as aggressive, and forced to develop more variations in his game'.

David Benavidez is definitively very similar to Toney Bellew 'And we may be witnessing the stage of his career, where it is no longer sustainable for him to continue fighting at the Super Middle Weight and potentially Light Heavyweight Divisions. Benavidez may be able to make the weight limits for many years to come in the Super Middle Weight to Light Heavyweight Divisions, but? That should not be the primary objective of a fighter'.

This is a criticism I have continually stated in regard to modern day lower weight class fighters 'The primarily objective of many modern day fighters is to first make the weight limit, training to win seem to a lot of the times be a secondary objective'.

I think David Benavidez is a solid fighter, but I just don't rate him as a Elite level fighter skill for skill 'He has achieved no feats on his resume, which suggest he is a Elite level fighter'.

Note: I have always backed Canelo Alvarez to win vs David Benavidez 'Stylistically the fight is straight up Alvarez's street. Pretty much very similar to how Bernard Hopkins vs Kelly Pavlik was stylistically a match up, straight up Hopkin's street. But at the time when Hopkins vs Pavlik was announced? The aggression, brute strength and pressuring fighting skills of Pavlik on the surface level? Made Kelly Pavlik appear like a potential brutal fight for Bernard Hopkins. But beyond the surface level, Pavlik in many areas of his game was going to struggle to complete with Hopkins, if he was not able to negate Hopkins with his own best attributes'.

It was only when you analyse fights below the surface level, and you compared all the bars of each fighter. Like on old school fighting games such as Street Fighter, where each character has like a bar representing how strong their level was in that fighting attribute. When you analyse fighters and match ups, attribute by attribute and go beyond the surface level.

In my opinion, YOUR perception of fighters and match ups does not always sync with the general public 'Or whatever narratives the universal boxing media is trying to promote and push for a particular fight'. Because usually those narratives which are pushed by the media, are mostly only surface level perceptions'.

The media knows that, the general public and casual sports fans 'Interact with information, predominantly on this level. During any big fight build up, the real hardcore debates, analysis is not really happening on Sky Sports or most other media channels. To a certain degree with most sports, the media will tactically not analyse sports in-depth much beyond the surface level because? They have to target different levels of perception'.

To conclude: David Benavidez on a surface level, appears like he is monster fighter to certain folk 'The general public and casual sports fans for the most part observe things on a surface level. Boxing promoters and the media are very aware of this. Benavidez has traits as a fighter, that are very impactful on a surface level of people's perceptions. Violence and aggression'.

But when you go beyond the surface level, you will understand that David Benavidez is not quite the monster fighter 'To the level that certain folk in the boxing community and media are trying to claim'.

David Benavidez is a solid World level fighter 'He has reached this point, by mainly relying on being the big man on fight night. Benavidez has reached World level with these tactics, but thus far in his career? I have not seen the evidence that he is good enough to reach elite level with those tactics. Especially once he starts to compete at his more natural weight, in the higher weight divisions'.

Is being second on compubox punch accuracy demonstrating an elite skill of accuracy?

Educate yourself before speaking ignorant nonsense. David is one of the most skilled and complete fighters in the world, and if you can't see it you don't understand boxing.

Statistics can more easily in a sport like boxing be manufactured, compared to other sports. In my opinion? The real hardcore statistics, only really start to accumulate when a fighter becomes a World Champion, and is then being forced to take on all comers and mandatory challenges.

David Benavidez is definitively a World Level fighter, but there is no way 'Any serious boxing analyst can rate him as elite level fighter skill for skill, or in terms of individual feats achieved in his career' etc.

[A.B Counterhooks]

The real litmus test for David Benavidez as an all round boxer, will be like YOU said 'When he encounters fighters who can also compete against him, in the areas of his game where he usually has a advantage in the lower weight classes. I.E Brute Strength, Power, Aggression.

But Benavidez's aggression in my opinion, may be influenced highly by the fact? That he knows he is the big man on fight night 'Without this acute advantage, and up against naturally stronger fighters in the Light Heavyweight Divisions and above. Benavidez may not be as aggressive, and forced to develop more variations in his game'.

David Benavidez is definitively very similar to Toney Bellew 'And we may be witnessing the stage of his career, where it is no longer sustainable for him to continue fighting at the Super Middle Weight and potentially Light Heavyweight Divisions. Benavidez may be able to make the weight limits for many years to come in the Super Middle Weight to Light Heavyweight Divisions, but? That should not be the primary objective of a fighter'.

This is a criticism I have continually stated in regard to modern day lower weight class fighters 'The primarily objective of many modern day fighters is to first make the weight limit, training to win seem to a lot of the times be a secondary objective'.

I think David Benavidez is a solid fighter, but I just don't rate him as a Elite level fighter skill for skill 'He has achieved no feats on his resume, which suggest he is a Elite level fighter'.

Note: I have always backed Canelo Alvarez to win vs David Benavidez 'Stylistically the fight is straight up Alvarez's street. Pretty much very similar to how Bernard Hopkins vs Kelly Pavlik was stylistically a match up, straight up Hopkin's street. But at the time when Hopkins vs Pavlik was announced? The aggression, brute strength and pressuring fighting skills of Pavlik on the surface level? Made Kelly Pavlik appear like a potential brutal fight for Bernard Hopkins. But beyond the surface level, Pavlik in many areas of his game was going to struggle to complete with Hopkins, if he was not able to negate Hopkins with his own best attributes'.

It was only when you analyse fights below the surface level, and you compared all the bars of each fighter. Like on old school fighting games such as Street Fighter, where each character has like a bar representing how strong their level was in that fighting attribute. When you analyse fighters and match ups, attribute by attribute and go beyond the surface level.

In my opinion, YOUR perception of fighters and match ups does not always sync with the general public 'Or whatever narratives the universal boxing media is trying to promote and push for a particular fight'. Because usually those narratives which are pushed by the media, are mostly only surface level perceptions'.

The media knows that, the general public and casual sports fans 'Interact with information, predominantly on this level. During any big fight build up, the real hardcore debates, analysis is not really happening on Sky Sports or most other media channels. To a certain degree with most sports, the media will tactically not analyse sports in-depth much beyond the surface level because? They have to target different levels of perception'.

To conclude: David Benavidez on a surface level, appears like he is monster fighter to certain folk 'The general public and casual sports fans for the most part observe things on a surface level. Boxing promoters and the media are very aware of this. Benavidez has traits as a fighter, that are very impactful on a surface level of people's perceptions. Violence and aggression'.

But when you go beyond the surface level, you will under that David Benavidez is not quite the monster fighter 'To the level that certain folk in the boxing community and media are trying to claim'.

David Benavidez is a solid World level fighter 'He has reached this point, by mainly relying on being the big man on fight night. Benavidez has reached World level with these tactics, but thus far in his career? I have not seen the evidence that he is good enough to reach elite level with those tactics. Especially once he starts to compete at his more natural weight, in the higher weight divisions'.



Statistics can more easily in a sport like boxing be manufactured, compared to other sports. In my opinion? The real hardcore statistics, only really start to accumulate when a fighter becomes a World Champion, and is then being forced to take on all comers and mandatory challenges.

David Benavidez is definitively a World Level fighter, but there is no way 'Any serious boxing analyst can rate him as elite level fighter skill for skill, or in terms of individual feats achieved in his career' etc.

Solid analysis. Benavidez is World Level at most, definitely not Elite....at least not yet.