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It's the Scoring System

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    It's the Scoring System

    Yes, there is corruption in boxing. Yes, there are incompetent judges and referees. This is irrefutable, but why do so many fans in 2023 still overlook the most obvious reason why professional boxing gets it wrong so regularly? Boxing decisions are consistently controversial not (primarily) because of inept judges or crooked power brokers, but simply because of boxing's poorly-implemented rules and its vague and non-sensical judging criteria.

    Within the U.S. the website is about the most authoriative source of information about how to conduct and score a professional boxing match, but this resource doesn't offer anything close to a comprehensive guide about how to evaluate a fight. The Unified Rules of Boxing Commissions provides a general framework for scoring but it doesn't provide a detailed breakdown of the scoring system or judging critiera. Fans need to go elsewhere for this information. Anyone who has watched fights for more than a week, however, has heard that boxing scoring uses the 10-Point Must system and that judges evaluate fights on the following four (4) criteria.
    • Effective Aggression
    • Ring Generalship
    • Defense
    • Clean, Hard Punching
    Most fans accept these as valid scoring criteria, but they are in fact, one of two principle culprits of why judges' and fans' scores vary so wildly in almost every major fight. A newbie fan might immediately wonder how could there be 4 scoring criteria? What other sport does that? Are these criteria all weighted the same? Is there any priority among them? Who's to know?

    In reality, the only logical scoring criterion is Clean, Hard Punching. The other criteria are superfluous and incidental to Clean, Hard Punching. These extra criteria also create the most confusion and lead to wacky scoring because they allow fans to pick and choose which criterion they want to prioritize in any given fight or in any given round. If they are a Floyd fan, they probably prioritize Defense and Ring Generaliship (whatever that specifically means). In another fight they might justify their scores by citing punch stats which indicate that their guy threw more punches or landed at a higher percentage (as though either matter); thereby proving that he was more 'effectively aggressive.' This is inanity, of course. Nothing matters in this this sport more than clean, hard punching, and weighing any other competing criteria only serves to disregard and diminish the primacy of clean, hard punching. Imagine if similar criteria were applied to any other sports (football, tennis, basketball, etc). You don't win in any competitive sport by giving points for defense, effort or style, so why impose those critieria on the most serious sport of all? This is not dancing or gymnastics.

    The second (and possibly bigger) culprit for crazy scoring in boxing is the complete disregard for even rounds. A majority of fans and judges completely disregard the fact that the 10-Point Must system acknowledges and allows for scoring of evenly-contested rounds; either because they do not know the rules or they simply regard it as weak and indecisive to score a round even. Fans and judges alike are so loathe to scoring even rounds that they will force a 10-9 score and justify it with the most insgnificant punch or cite some vague assessment of superiority in aggressiveness or ring generalship. Anything at all to not score an even round, even when the round was absolutely as even or uneventful as can be. The end result is wild scorecard variance and endless calls of robbery, just like this weekend.

    Most fans, regardless of who they were rooting for this weekend, acknowledged that there were at least 5-6 extremely difficult "swing rounds" to score in the Haney-Lomachenko fight. How many of those fans scored 5-6 even rounds (10-10) on their scorecards? Imagine if they did?
    Last edited by TheOneAboveAll; 05-23-2023, 10:42 AM.

    #2
    is there a system in the world that can force an influenced judge to abandon his track and score it for the winner & not the guy he wants to win

    Comment


      #3
      Even rounds are for people who can't make decisions, never score em.

      Scoring is still better than it was in the 60's and before, where refs could score fights etc....Floyd Patterson vs Jimmy Ellis.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by TheOneAboveAll View Post
        Yes, there is corruption in boxing. Yes, there are incompetent judges and referees. This is irrefutable, but why do so many fans in 2023 still overlook the most obvious reason why professional boxing gets it wrong so regularly? Boxing decisions are consistently controversial not (primarily) because of inept judges or crooked power brokers, but simply because of pro boxing's vague and non-sensical rules and judging criteria.

        Within the U.S. the is about the most authoriative source for information about how to conduct and score a professional boxing match, but this resource doesn't come close to offering a comprehensive guide to evaluating a fight. The Unified Rules of Boxing Commissions provides a general framework for scoring but doesn't even include a detailed breakdown of the scoring system and judging critiera. Fans need to go elsewhere for this information. Anyone who has watched fights for more than a week, however, has heard that boxing scoring uses the 10-Point Must system and that judges evaluate fights on the following four (4) criteria.
        • Effective Aggression
        • Ring Generalship
        • Defense
        • Clean, Hard Punching​
        Most fans accept these as valid scoring criteria, but they are in fact, one of two principle culprits of why judges' and fans' scores vary so wildly in almost every major fight. A newbie fan might immediately wonder how could there be 4 scoring criteria? What other sport does that? Are these criteria all weighted the same? Is there any priority among them? Who's to know?

        In reality, the only logical scoring criteria is Clean, Hard Punching. The other criteria are superfluous and incidental to Clean, Hard Punching. These extra criteria also create the most confusion and lead to wacky scoring because they allow fans to pick and choose which criterion they want to prioritize in any given fight. If they are a Floyd fan, they probably prioritize Defense and Ring Generaliship (whatever that specifically means). In another fight they might justify their scores by citing punch stats which indicate that their guy threw more punches or landed at a higher percentage (as though either matter); thereby proving that he was more 'effectively aggressive.' This is inanity, of course. Nothing matters in this this sport more than clean, hard punching, and weighing any other competing criteria only serves to disregard and diminish the primacy of clean, hard punching. Imagine if similar criteria were applied to any other sports (football, tennis, basketball, etc). You don't win in any competitive sport by giving points for defense, effort or style, so why impose those critieria on the most serious sport of all? This is not dancing or gymnastics.

        The second (and possibly bigger) culprit for crazy scoring in boxing is the complete disregard for even rounds. A majority of fans and judges completely disregard the fact that the 10-Point Must system acknowledges and allows for scoring of evenly-contested rounds; either because they do not know the rules or they simply regard it as weak and indecisive to score a round even. Fans and judges alike are so loathe to scoring even rounds that they will force a 10-9 score and justify it with the most insgnificant punch or cite some vague assessment of superiority in aggressiveness or ring generalship. Anything not to score an even round, even when the round was absolutely as even or uneventful as can be. The end result is wild scorecard variance and endless calls of robbery, just like this weekend.

        Most fans, regardless of who they were rooting for this weekend, acknowledged that there were at least 5-6 extremely difficult "swing rounds" to score in the Haney-Lomachenko fight. How many of those fans scored 5-6 even rounds (10-10) on their scorecards. Imagine if they did?
        Good post. But what happens when 80 percent of the population (or viewers) see the winner clear as day. If this were a toss up fight that we just saw this weekend, wouldn't there be a big split of opinion? Why is it so overwhelmingly Loma? Why are all the professional fighters and trainers saying Loma won? Why are they ALL SAYING IT'S A ROBBERY?!

        I've never seen such an outpouring of outrage. I don't even think it was this bad for Canelo vs Golovkin. I think this is viewed as being even more outrageous. Maybe it's due to Canelo vs Golovkin ended in a majority draw. I don't know, but this weekend has left EVERYONE OUTRAGED. So clearly there is some objective criteria that is being considered here to have people overwhelmingly saying the fight was a robbery and Loma won the fight.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by TheIronMike View Post
          Even rounds are for people who can't make decisions, never score em.

          Scoring is still better than it was in the 60's and before, where refs could score fights etc....Floyd Patterson vs Jimmy Ellis.
          Thanks for affirming my argument.
          adoorisajar adoorisajar likes this.

          Comment


            #6


            Not just even rounds but rounds that are barely edged, count the same as rounds that are dominant. One of the reasons, I believe, people are so unhappy with the Loma/Haney result is that it seemed obvious that Loma won the fight but breaking it down to rounds, with each round counted equally. The fight was about dead even.
            TheOneAboveAll TheOneAboveAll likes this.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by TheOneAboveAll View Post
              The second (and possibly bigger) culprit for crazy scoring in boxing is the complete disregard for even rounds. A majority of fans and judges completely disregard the fact that the 10-Point Must system acknowledges and allows for scoring of evenly-contested rounds; either because they do not know the rules or they simply regard it as weak and indecisive to score a round even. Fans and judges alike are so loathe to scoring even rounds that they will force a 10-9 score and justify it with the most insgnificant punch or cite some vague assessment of superiority in aggressiveness or ring generalship. Anything not to score an even round, even when the round was absolutely as even or uneventful as can be. The end result is wild scorecard variance and endless calls of robbery, just like this weekend.

              Most fans, regardless of who they were rooting for this weekend, acknowledged that there were at least 5-6 extremely difficult "swing rounds" to score in the Haney-Lomachenko fight. How many of those fans scored 5-6 even rounds (10-10) on their scorecards. Imagine if they did?
              Yep, I've been saying this forever. It's crazy to me how most people can't seem to grasp the inherent logic of scoring a round that was too close to call as exactly that, and conversely how illogical and flawed it is to instead give one guy full credit and the other none.

              It would be more forgivable if judges were encouraged to use the full range of the ten-point must system, i.e. a close round is scored 10-9, a dominant one 10-5 (or whatever), but as it currently stands 95% of all rounds with no knockdowns are scored 10-9, so any round which isn't scored even is all or nothing.

              Would it put a stop to corruption and biased judging? Of course not. Nothing will ever accomplish that in a sport in which the result is determined by subjective means. If you're focusing on that you're wasting your time. This is about making an honest judge's scorecard more accurately reflect the overall picture of the fight.

              Comment


                #8
                This sort of thing is part of why ONE championship moved to scoring fights as a whole. If they really wanted checks and balances, they could also do basic things like having a video record, and when knockdowns are called, or there's a close round, they can go back and rewatch the replay. They do that in NFL, NBA, etc. There could be an avenue to challenge the scores and have the fight rescored by a new panel of judges and if a scorecard is too wildly off, there are penalties for the judge and if it's egregious enough to affect the outcome of the fight, maybe the result gets overturned. There's many different avenues that other sports use regularly to ensure fairness.

                Boxing doesn't use them because it needs to ensure it can remain corrupt, since that's where the money gets made.

                Comment


                  #9
                  They need to get rid of these old ass judges first. Also there’s no need for them to be ringside either. It’s 2023 and they should be watching the fights on an HD TV monitor. Sometimes I look at the judges during the rounds and watching them try to lean over and get a decent vantage point with the referee in the way is embarrassing. They’re missing all kinds of action in the ring.
                  Jsmooth9876 Jsmooth9876 likes this.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    more crying and biching from people that made out their scorecard before the fight started. Ya boy lost and yall still crying 2 days later. no robbery. stop the bullchit

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