Can Manny Pacquiao Surpass Sugar Ray Leonard in the ATG List?

[Freddy Krueger]

So a person could move up on an ATG list even by losing?


I don't know why ya'll think beating someone more than once improves your resume...Leonard beat Duran twice but the 3rd fight doesn't make his resume better...

That's like Floyd KOing Hatton and then rematching him now and winning again...it doesn't make his resume better...

You're special, just because he beat Duran twice doesn't erase the other loss.

[Chups]

One can not compare Sugar Ray Leonard to anybody of today. Ray Leonard fought 15 rounders and fought all the great Welter Weights. Thanks to DLH, Mayweather, and greedy promoters...it's all about the pay day. Todays fighters have greater skills, training technique, etc,....but don't have half the heart, and determination, the 'ol timers had.

It was all about the payday back then too........in his last few years of his career, Leonard only fought for big paydays. Pac and SRL have actual similarites....they both won their most important fights.....they both fought for bogus belts to make the fight interesting (SRL two weightclass belts in 1 fight and Pac "Diamond belt' ) They both went up in weightclass and succeeded. They defeated HOF and ATG fighters. And like someone said here....they both have controversial wins.

The only difference is that Pac didn't need 15 rounds to win a fight.

[solo20]

No matter how many people Pac beats he will never be considered anywhere near Leonard's greatness unless he beats Floyd convincingly. The problem is as someone else mentioned many of the guys Leonard beat are considered top 20-30 ATG's whereas arguably no one that Pac beat is at that level yet. Floyd would be the only guy anywhere near that level but unfortunately Floyd would probably beat Pac.

what this guy said is real talk . i want to see where you nuthuggers place the fighters Pac beat how high are they in your atg fighters list going by the Ring ****zine list who are the fighters you guys move down to take there slot ?

ring ****zine's 80 greatest fighters of the last 80 years

this list was done in 02.
1.Sugar Ray Robinson
2.Henry Armstrong
3.Muhammad Ali
4.Joe Louis
5.Roberto Duran
6.Willie Pep
7.Harry Greb
8.Benny Leonard
9.Sugar Ray Leonard
10.Pernell Whitaker
11.Carlos Monzon
12.Rocky Marciano
13.Ezzard Charles
14.Archie Moore
15.Sandy Saddler
16.Jack Dempsey
17.Marvin Hagler
18.Julio Cesar Chavez
19.Eder Jofre
20.Alexis Arguello
21.Barney Ross
22.Evander Holyfield
23.Ike Williams
24.Salvador Sanchez
25.George Foreman
26.Kid Gavilan
27.Larry Holmes
28.Mickey Walker
29.Ruben Olivares
30.Gene Tunney
31.**** Tiger
32.Fighting Harada
33.Emile Griffith
34.Tony Canzoneri
35.Aaron Pryor
36.Pascual Perez
37.Miguel Canto
38.Manuel Ortiz
39.Charley Burley
40.Carmen Basilio
41.Michael Spinks
42.Joe Frazier
43.Khaosai Galaxy
44.Roy Jones Jr.
45.Tiger Flowers
46.Panama Al Brown
47.Kid Chocolate
48Joe Brown
49.Tommy Loughran
50.Bernard Hopkins
51.Felix Trinidad
52.Jake LaMotta
53.Lennox Lewis
54.Wilfredo Gomez
55.Bob Foster
56.Jose Napoles
57.Billy Conn
58.Jimmy McLarnin
59.Pancho Villa
60.Carlos Ortiz
61.Bob Montgomery
62.Freddie Miller
63.Benny Lynch
64.Beau Jack
65.Azumah Nelson
66.Eusebio Pedroza
67.Thomas Hearns
68.Wilfred Benitez
69.Antonio Cervantes
70.Ricardo Lopez
71.Sonny Liston
72.Mike Tyson
73.Vicente Saldivar
74.Gene Fullmer
75.Oscar De La Hoya
76.Carlos Zarate
77.Marcel Cerdan
78.Flash Elorde
79.Mike McCallum
80.Harold Johnson

[koboy]

lets say he beats cotto then beats floyd, as a pac fan i still cant see him getting a better place in the ATG list. sugar ray beat everyone he needs to beat. benitez, duran, hearns, and hagler. skill wise, sugar ray is also better. pac maybe able to match up srl's resume if he beats mosley

No, I don't think he ever will, either. Even if he beats Mosley. SRL also won Olympic Gold for the US and then came out of retirement and risked his sight to fight Hagler and then went on to win the SMW and HW bout after beating Lalonde. Duran, Hagler and Hearns are all ATGs and Leonard is the only one to beat them all in their mini-round robin tournament in the 80s. Plus, he beat them all when they were in their primes.

The best fighters in Pac's resume are great but you can't compare them to Duran, Hagler and Hearns.

[RightCross94]

Leonard beat several guys who are routinely placed in the top 50 or so fighters ever. Manny would need to defeat JMM again, Floyd, Cotto and Mosley before we could even discuss this.

[Chups]

No matter how many people Pac beats he will never be considered anywhere near Leonard's greatness unless he beats Floyd convincingly. The problem is as someone else mentioned many of the guys Leonard beat are considered top 20-30 ATG's whereas arguably no one that Pac beat is at that level yet. Floyd would be the only guy anywhere near that level but unfortunately Floyd would probably beat Pac.

I don't think he will pass Leonard even if he beats Floyd.

[-EX-]

Ring ****zine's list is garbage...Pernell top 10...sorry I don't think so.

And how is Trinidad WAYYYY ahead of Oscar and Tyson ahead of Oscar?

You're special, just because he beat Duran twice doesn't erase the other loss.

And you can't discredit him for the wins either...

[RightCross94]

what this guy said is real talk . i want to see where you nuthuggers place the fighters Pac beat how high are they in your atg fighters list going by the Ring ****zine list who are the fighters you guys move down to take there slot ?

ring ****zine's 80 greatest fighters of the last 80 years

this list was done in 02.
1.Sugar Ray Robinson
2.Henry Armstrong
3.Muhammad Ali
4.Joe Louis
5.Roberto Duran
6.Willie Pep
7.Harry Greb
8.Benny Leonard
9.Sugar Ray Leonard
10.Pernell Whitaker
11.Carlos Monzon
12.Rocky Marciano
13.Ezzard Charles
14.Archie Moore
15.Sandy Saddler
16.Jack Dempsey
17.Marvin Hagler
18.Julio Cesar Chavez
19.Eder Jofre
20.Alexis Arguello
21.Barney Ross
22.Evander Holyfield
23.Ike Williams
24.Salvador Sanchez
25.George Foreman
26.Kid Gavilan
27.Larry Holmes
28.Mickey Walker
29.Ruben Olivares
30.Gene Tunney
31.**** Tiger
32.Fighting Harada
33.Emile Griffith
34.Tony Canzoneri
35.Aaron Pryor
36.Pascual Perez
37.Miguel Canto
38.Manuel Ortiz
39.Charley Burley
40.Carmen Basilio
41.Michael Spinks
42.Joe Frazier
43.Khaosai Galaxy
44.Roy Jones Jr.
45.Tiger Flowers
46.Panama Al Brown
47.Kid Chocolate
48Joe Brown
49.Tommy Loughran
50.Bernard Hopkins
51.Felix Trinidad
52.Jake LaMotta
53.Lennox Lewis
54.Wilfredo Gomez
55.Bob Foster
56.Jose Napoles
57.Billy Conn
58.Jimmy McLarnin
59.Pancho Villa
60.Carlos Ortiz
61.Bob Montgomery
62.Freddie Miller
63.Benny Lynch
64.Beau Jack
65.Azumah Nelson
66.Eusebio Pedroza
67.Thomas Hearns
68.Wilfred Benitez
69.Antonio Cervantes
70.Ricardo Lopez
71.Sonny Liston
72.Mike Tyson
73.Vicente Saldivar
74.Gene Fullmer
75.Oscar De La Hoya
76.Carlos Zarate
77.Marcel Cerdan
78.Flash Elorde
79.Mike McCallum
80.Harold Johnson

Leonard has wins over the guys in bold. And he himself sits at 9.

[AKATheMack]

what this guy said is real talk . i want to see where you nuthuggers place the fighters Pac beat how high are they in your atg fighters list going by the Ring ****zine list who are the fighters you guys move down to take there slot ?

ring ****zine's 80 greatest fighters of the last 80 years

this list was done in 02.


51.Felix Trinidad


67.Thomas Hearns

How in the hell is that?

[Chups]

Ring ****zine's list is garbage...Pernell top 10...sorry I don't think so.

And how is Trinidad WAYYYY ahead of Oscar and Tyson ahead of Oscar?



And you can't discredit him for the wins either...

And Sandy Saddler is the dirtiest motherfucker who ever lived.