Lennox Lewis and the KLITCHKO BROTHERS are top 3 heavyweights of all time

[knn]

The truth of the matter is, for those FEW of us who aren't media puppets LEWIS and the KLITCHKOS beat any heavyweight who's ever fought more times then not.

I agree. Except maybe for Foreman. 70ies-Foreman (although he would be one of Klitschko's bottom 10 LIGHTEST opponents) would have more chances.

Foreman's median weight in the 70ies was 217lbs. This is approx. like Chris Byrd or Eliseo Castillo.

People like Mike Tyson because of his CHARACTER, yea he was good in his prime, but prime lennox always beats tyson, tyson could never get past the jab.

Not only that Tyson couldn't get past the jab: Tyson was an animal, and as such he knew after the first hard punches that he's fighting against an alpha animal, thus Tyson would put his tail between his legs and await further orders.

Moreover it applies what I wrote at:
//krikya360.com/forums/sh...29#post5523729
Tyson was KOing mainly bums, greens and opponents smaller than 6'3''

Ali had no power and wouldnt be knocked out by all 3, he's not decisioning a modern day 6'7 240 pound heavyweight, hell he got 2 gift decisions vs Norton

When you check Ali's performance in real heavyweight fights (= both opponents 200+) then Ali in his entire career has scored 11 KOs in rounds 1-12.

In the whole 70ies Ali has scored 5 (FIVE) KOs.

Joe Frazier (= another featherfist) is slightly better with 8 KOs (4 of them against bums) in 18 fights: 44% KOratio.

As a comparison to a modern featherfist: Chris Byrd scored 18 KOs in 41 fights = has a KOratio like Frazier, but is TALLER than Frazier, REACHIER than Frazier, 10lbs HEAVIER than Frazier. And everyone knows exactly what happened when Byrd met Wlad.

Since Frazier is a featherfist (and Ali even more so) that is the reason why their clashes took so many rounds: 2 featherfists with somewhat good chins patting each other for 13+ rounds.

Marciano, Dempsey, Louis are too small

Too small is rather not the point. The point is that Marciano, Dempsey and Louis were CRUISERS fighting cruisers.

Marciano had not a single real heavyweight fight (= both opponents 200+)

Dempsey was only involved 1 time in his career in a real heavyweight fight: Against 0-6-0 bum Tom Riley.

Louis had only 11 (nearly all against bums or former cruisers) as I wrote at
//krikya360.com/forums/sh...62#post5596462

The main reason for the delusion that Marciano is EVEN MENTIONED in the same sentence like Lennox or Tyson is a huge mistake that the boxing associations made: They kept the name "heavyweight" when they increased the minimum weight to 200+. That way fans delude themselves into thinking that Marciano has ANYTHING to do with modern heavies, whereas he was fighting cruisers. Add to it that Marciano was fighting in a terrible era (drained by the second world war) and that Marciano had thinner gloves (= higher KOratio) and you realize how overrated he is.

People should compare Marciano (12 fights against 175+ non-bums) to Roy Jones Jr (11 fights against 175+ non-bums), not to Lennox or Tyson.

Marciao dempsey ali louis wouldn't be the final 4, they might not even get out of the 1st round.

Nah, this is too harsh. I give Ali more rounds against modern heavies. After all he survived against Foreman (although possibly drugged) and he survived against Lyle, which is also not bad. Of course, Ali mainly survived because of his dirty clinchfests ("Dirty Clay") and because he was fighting in a bad era as I wrote at
//krikya360.com/forums/sh...40#post5597040
so we won't know how good he really was compared to nowadays heavies, but he was the best-record'ed of his era, I give him that.

I disagree with you however on the statement that Vitali Klitschko is a top3 heavyweight. By his performances maybe. By his record not. Wlad, Lennox, Tyson and others have a better record than Vitali.

Now I already know the typical reaction to this post of good-old-time-nostalgists:

• Giving Bad Karma
• "How can you call yourself a boxing fan?"
• "Ridiculous nuthugger"
• "Ali's opponents were soooo much better than nowadays opponents" (they were not, read my sig)
• "Ali's opponents' opponents were soooo much better than nowadays opponents' opponents" (as if you would know)
• "Worst post I read in this forum"/"Ban him already" (as if I would care)
• "You obviously never watched boxing" (unfortunately I watched all of Ali's fights... Dirty and BOOORING)
• "Records don't tell the whole story" (they tell 95% of the story)
• "Ali had more heart/ footwork" or similar nonsense (I never saw "heart" on the scorecards and boxing is not a ballet competition).

If you want to state one of the above or similar statements then please know:

• You are so predictable
• Watch Ali's heavyweight fights WHILE NOT ON YOUR KNEES

[knn]

best fighter sonny liston ever beat was cleveland williams or little ass floyd paterson

Sonny Liston has 26 real heavyweight fights in his career (= both boxers 200+).

20 (of these 26) are against bums. Of the remaining 6 he lost 2. His most notable wins are against Cleveland Williams (212lbs) and featherfist Zech (35-11).

Patterson was a cruiser opponents.

[MACAQUEINBLACK]

You heard the man.




Valuev > Ali

[Deja_Vous]

the average as.shole (most of you) is what I like to call a MEDIA PUPPET. Meaning you follow what ever is 'popular' everybody says Muhhammad Ali is the greatest so we'll say it. Marciano was popular he so he's a great, Louis, Dempsey yada yada yah.

The truth of the matter is, for those FEW of us who aren't media puppets LEWIS and the KLITCHKOS beat any heavyweight who's ever fought more times then not. People like Mike Tyson because of his CHARACTER, yea he was good in his prime, but prime lennox always beats tyson, tyson could never get past the jab. Tyson has always had **** stamnia and always got discouraged when he couldn't knock a guy out within 3-4 rounds.

Ali had no power and wouldnt be knocked out by all 3, he's not decisioning a modern day 6'7 240 pound heavyweight, hell he got 2 gift decisions vs Norton. Marciano, Dempsey, Louis are too small and would be destroyed rather quickly, those 3 wouldn't even beat an average fighter like David Tua or Razor Ruddock.

As I said in years past, if their was magically a heavyweight boxing tournament of the top most known 64 heavyweights all time, college basketball tourney style, Marciao dempsey ali louis wouldn't be the final 4, they might not even get out of the 1st round. Imagine these 1st round match ups.

Ibeuchi vs Dempsey, Marciano vs V.Klitchko, Feather Fisted ALI vs Valuev Louis vs Holyfield .

If you had to bet your house on it that rocky marciano could beat lennox lewis or muhhammad ali could be wlad klitchko then your as ****** as you look!

This man is crazy.

Those guys are not 15 round fighters and they have all been whipped by journeyman that couldn't fight there way out of a girl-scout jamboree.

Ali could circle COUNTER-CLOCKWISE...NO heavies can do that today.

He would come in the blind-side of today's giant robots and EASILLY KO them.



Unlike the old days...THERE ARE NO BOB N WEAVE FIGHTERS like Frazier and Dempsey.

Even the smaller heavies fight straight-up.


The guys that beat Lewis and the Klit sisters would NEVER beat the ATG's.

[knn]

you would be taken more seriously if you thought lewis was the greatest hw of all time rather than including vitali...what a joke. he doesnt break the top 64 heavyweights of all time to even get in your makebelieve tournament so how does he make it to the top 3???haha.

Give me the 63 fighters above Vitali and make _ME_ laugh.

Oh, and 1 favour I ask of you: All of the 63 fighters above Vitali should have fought at least 20 heavies (= 200+ lbs). I don't think anyone can be in a heavyweight ATG ranking without having fought at least some representative amount of heavyweight fights.

all time greats dont make me think vitali...i think marciano, ali, frazier, louis, dempsey, etc. etc. etc. (could go on forever) but it would take at least 100 hw before a current hw even popped into my head.

There we have it: You put cruisers and cruiser-beaters in your heavyweight ATG. Whom else do you have there? Archie Moore and Ezzard Charles? Hahaha.

[knn]

Those guys are not 15 round fighters

1) Pure speculation
2) Going 15 rounds is not a virtue. It's failure.

Ali could circle COUNTER-CLOCKWISE...NO heavies can do that today.

Yeah, Ali was the Queen of so called "Mary-Go Round-Tournaments". So sad they don't organize them anymore.

He would come in the blind-side of today's giant robots and EASILLY KO them.

Noone is interested in your favorite delusions.

Unlike the old days...THERE ARE NO BOB N WEAVE FIGHTERS like Frazier and Dempsey.

Frazier had to bob because he was blind on 1 eye.

Bobbing is also no virtue.

Dempsey's median weight was 187, he was a cruiser. Compare him with Roy Jones.

[knn]

Marciano would murder Wladdy, all you have to do is watch some of Marciano fights, Wladdy never fought anyone like Marciano.

Wlad never fought anyone like Marciano because Marciano wouldn't be allowed to step into the same ring as Wlad.

Marciano's average weight is 184lbs (he started with 178). Add to it Marciano's short arms and you know that Marciano would be floored in round 1 and lie on his back like a bug trying to get up with its tiny arms.

Marciano's KOratio stems from the fact that he boxed with thinner gloves. If Wlad would box with thinner gloves Marciano would get KOed with a few jabs alone.

There is no chance in the world that someone like Marciano (184lbs, 5'10'', reach 67'') would even survive 2 rounds against Wlad.

Marciano won only against 2 non-bummy 200+ opponents: featherfist Don ****ell and 37-year-old Joe Louis in his last fight.

Marciano beating any modern heavyweight is the mother of all delusions.

[knn]

holyfield took him to school at what, 46? and hes a small HW too. TS is a complete MORON.

Evan Fields took noone to school. Revisionism is moronic.

[StarshipTrooper]

I agree. Except maybe for Foreman. 70ies-Foreman (although he would be one of Klitschko's bottom 10 LIGHTEST opponents) would have more chances.

Foreman's median weight in the 70ies was 217lbs. This is approx. like Chris Byrd or Eliseo Castillo.


Not only that Tyson couldn't get past the jab: Tyson was an animal, and as such he knew after the first hard punches that he's fighting against an alpha animal, thus Tyson would put his tail between his legs and await further orders.

Moreover it applies what I wrote at:
//krikya360.com/forums/sh...29#post5523729
Tyson was KOing mainly bums, greens and opponents smaller than 6'3''


When you check Ali's performance in real heavyweight fights (= both opponents 200+) then Ali in his entire career has scored 11 KOs in rounds 1-12.

In the whole 70ies Ali has scored 5 (FIVE) KOs.

Joe Frazier (= another featherfist) is slightly better with 8 KOs (4 of them against bums) in 18 fights: 44% KOratio.

As a comparison to a modern featherfist: Chris Byrd scored 18 KOs in 41 fights = has a KOratio like Frazier, but is TALLER than Frazier, REACHIER than Frazier, 10lbs HEAVIER than Frazier. And everyone knows exactly what happened when Byrd met Wlad.

Since Frazier is a featherfist (and Ali even more so) that is the reason why their clashes took so many rounds: 2 featherfists with somewhat good chins patting each other for 13+ rounds.


Too small is rather not the point. The point is that Marciano, Dempsey and Louis were CRUISERS fighting cruisers.

Marciano had not a single real heavyweight fight (= both opponents 200+)

Dempsey was only involved 1 time in his career in a real heavyweight fight: Against 0-6-0 bum Tom Riley.

Louis had only 11 (nearly all against bums or former cruisers) as I wrote at
//krikya360.com/forums/sh...62#post5596462

The main reason for the delusion that Marciano is EVEN MENTIONED in the same sentence like Lennox or Tyson is a huge mistake that the boxing associations made: They kept the name "heavyweight" when they increased the minimum weight to 200+. That way fans delude themselves into thinking that Marciano has ANYTHING to do with modern heavies, whereas he was fighting cruisers. Add to it that Marciano was fighting in a terrible era (drained by the second world war) and that Marciano had thinner gloves (= higher KOratio) and you realize how overrated he is.

People should compare Marciano (12 fights against 175+ non-bums) to Roy Jones Jr (11 fights against 175+ non-bums), not to Lennox or Tyson.


Nah, this is too harsh. I give Ali more rounds against modern heavies. After all he survived against Foreman (although possibly drugged) and he survived against Lyle, which is also not bad. Of course, Ali mainly survived because of his dirty clinchfests ("Dirty Clay") and because he was fighting in a bad era as I wrote at
//krikya360.com/forums/sh...40#post5597040
so we won't know how good he really was compared to nowadays heavies, but he was the best-record'ed of his era, I give him that.

I disagree with you however on the statement that Vitali Klitschko is a top3 heavyweight. By his performances maybe. By his record not. Wlad, Lennox, Tyson and others have a better record than Vitali.

Now I already know the typical reaction to this post of good-old-time-nostalgists:

• Giving Bad Karma
• "How can you call yourself a boxing fan?"
• "Ridiculous nuthugger"
• "Ali's opponents were soooo much better than nowadays opponents" (they were not, read my sig)
• "Ali's opponents' opponents were soooo much better than nowadays opponents' opponents" (as if you would know)
• "Worst post I read in this forum"/"Ban him already" (as if I would care)
• "You obviously never watched boxing" (unfortunately I watched all of Ali's fights... Dirty and BOOORING)
• "Records don't tell the whole story" (they tell 95% of the story)
• "Ali had more heart/ footwork" or similar nonsense (I never saw "heart" on the scorecards and boxing is not a ballet competition).

If you want to state one of the above or similar statements then please know:

• You are so predictable
• Watch Ali's heavyweight fights WHILE NOT ON YOUR KNEES

It's too bad there isn't any unlimited karma anymore because I'd make sure your bar never saw green the rest of you E-life.....for gross ******ity. Now go away Tunney's alt.

Poet

[Uturn]

Soon as i seen the name Valuev mentioned i know this was some kind of joke.