Originally posted by CastorTroy
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Is Mike Tyson overrated by boxing fans?
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Tyson is an underachiever, he could have been one of the best heavyweights and the best in the 90's era. But yeah he is many times overrated, just look at the youtube video comments for videos on Tyson.
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Mike Tyson was a devastating fighter with great power and speed at his very best. The problem I have with him is that he really never beat a great fighter. Lost to Holyfield twice, Lennox Lewis, Buster Douglas and some guys he should have never lost to. He did beat Larry Holmes who was 38 years old, almost 2 years older than Joe Louis when he fought Marciano and that was a title fight! He beat Trevor Berbick, Michael Tucker, and Razor Ruddock but none of these guys were what you would call great by any means.
I believe most of Mike's problems were in his head more than anything and he was just not mentally tough enough to overcome them. A lot of folks put Mike on a pedastal and even think he was the best ever but the record proves otherwise.
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Mike's biggest downfall are a couple of things:
1)Firing Rooney and not having someone who really understood his style. Also after Rooney left, the numbers system that was in place, was lost forever. I think that played a part into why he never really looked the same afterwards, although he looked well in the Ruddock fights.
2)Doing jail time and not being able to train for 3 years. His type of style requires activity and repitition.
3)Fighters of his style generally have short primes such as Dempsey, Marciano, Frazier,etc.
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It depends.
When he was with Rooney, and when he became the first to unify all 3 belts, he was something quite special.
In terms of pure skill, it's therefore easy to argue he could well be No. 1
In Terms on achievment, he was screwed as soon as Don King came in the picture and his problems outside the ring spiraled out of control. His bouts just before prison and at around the Douglas bout were an indication his hunger and mind was no longer there.
Tyson was quite frankly a train-wreck waiting to happen, and it was not the Douglas Bout that did this, but the Prison stint.
It's a wonder how he even became champ again after returning from Prison. The Tyson of 85-88 was clearly not there. There were moments of his Prime but it was almost as if he was a different fighter.
The fact is, Tyson was having 2-3 Bouts a month in his Prime, and had his career progressed like any other boxers career progressed, that is, no nonesense from Money-Hungry Managers, "Advisors", Women, and prepared for bouts like he did with Rooney, Tyson could well have been the All Time HW. no 1.
In Hindsight, it really is an example, that no mater how good you are, Women, Alchohol and Drugs can destroy your life.
Tyson had so much, and lost it all, not once, but twice (post Prison too).
Sad things is his Boxing Peak may have been around 88', but his Physical peak was easily a few years after prison. He could have ressurrected his career had he got someone like Rooney back and trained like he used too, but that obviously did not happen
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Originally posted by larryx View Posthow can the youngest heavyweight champ ever be overated????damn the boy cleaned out his division belt by belt and had some defenses
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Originally posted by minion View PostIt depends.
When he was with Rooney, and when he became the first to unify all 3 belts, he was something quite special.
In terms of pure skill, it's therefore easy to argue he could well be No. 1
In Terms on achievment, he was screwed as soon as Don King came in the picture and his problems outside the ring spiraled out of control. His bouts just before prison and at around the Douglas bout were an indication his hunger and mind was no longer there.
Tyson was quite frankly a train-wreck waiting to happen, and it was not the Douglas Bout that did this, but the Prison stint.
It's a wonder how he even became champ again after returning from Prison. The Tyson of 85-88 was clearly not there. There were moments of his Prime but it was almost as if he was a different fighter.
The fact is, Tyson was having 2-3 Bouts a month in his Prime, and had his career progressed like any other boxers career progressed, that is, no nonesense from Money-Hungry Managers, "Advisors", Women, and prepared for bouts like he did with Rooney, Tyson could well have been the All Time HW. no 1.
In Hindsight, it really is an example, that no mater how good you are, Women, Alchohol and Drugs can destroy your life.
Tyson had so much, and lost it all, not once, but twice (post Prison too).
Sad things is his Boxing Peak may have been around 88', but his Physical peak was easily a few years after prison. He could have ressurrected his career had he got someone like Rooney back and trained like he used too, but that obviously did not happen
I still can't see Tyson being as effective in his 30's. All those short explosive in your face fighters had short but devastating careers. Tyson had a great deal of skill but also relied on his supernatural athletic gifts, the fact that he peaked early also contributes to this.
The kid was 200 lbs at 14, he hit his prime in his early 20's. In his prime however, I give him a good shot and wiping out any ATG with the kind of speed and power he had.
However, for a long term career like other greats, I can't see this happening for Tyson, he wouldn't be the same even in his 30's if he had been mentally prepared. Tyson was still the quickest heavyweight even when he fought Lewis, but it didn't matter at that point - he could only keep it up for the first round.
He just had his stint, wiped out everyone in his Prime, destroyed Holmes, destroyed Spinks and probably could have beaten Holyfield if his trainers had any sense or plan B. But in terms of a long lasting Career, I don't see that. Other fighters when they get old can rely on other things, Foreman (power and strength), toughness and gameplans (Ali) boxing fundamentals and timing/clinching (Hopkins)..Tyson is 5'11 with a short reach, the only thing he can do is come forward and blast away, you can only do that for so long and definently not when you are in you're 30's and 40's.Last edited by them_apples; 01-01-2009, 04:53 PM.
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