Jermain Taylor: "I Want To Make an Impact at 168"

[jangeorg]

i like his modesty, but imma say it for him he's gonna run that divison take it over. like to see him battle kessler couple times.

Will never happen,Kessler will KO Taylor if they ever fought

[Hitman932]

This is a bit of a cop-out, no?

You said he could've fought Hopkins sooner, then when Dirk answered your point, you ignored it and started talking about Pavlik.

isnt that what this is all about.

one person makes a few good points and a few bad ones.

person who responds ignores good points, and focuses on bad ones.

that person makes a few good points, a few bad ones

and so it goes.............


I do agree with one point dstew made that stands out. Taylor can exceed the legacy that Calzaghe has/will have when/if he beats RJJ.

Joe is a great fighter with a mediocre resume, in light of his own comments about RJJ I don't think there is any reason to think a victory adds to his long term legacy

[Clegg]

isnt that what this is all about.

one person makes a few good points and a few bad ones.

person who responds ignores good points, and focuses on bad ones.

that person makes a few good points, a few bad ones

and so it goes.............

Honestly? I don't think I do that. Maybe I'm wrong, but for example I can admit that the below is correct:

I do agree with one point dstew made that stands out. Taylor can exceed the legacy that Calzaghe has/will have when/if he beats RJJ.

Joe is a great fighter with a mediocre resume, in light of his own comments about RJJ I don't think there is any reason to think a victory adds to his long term legacy

the only part I disagree with is the word mediocre, but then again you may mean that it's mediocre compared to someone like RJJ.

The future fights of Hopkins, Kessler and Lacy will determine Calzaghe's resume, but right now it's not as good as Hopkins, Jones, Pacquiao etc.

I agree with you about dstew though, he's good to debate with and a good poster.

[dstew]

Well I disagree.

First of all, Taylor is a well spoken, intelligent guy, regardless of his neighbourhood or race. Furthermore, if Hopkins or Tyson were white, would their persona work as well? Not in my opinion.[/i]

Are you serious with this? Taylor's had a stutter since his childhood, speaks with a thick Southern U.S. accent and is not considered a brain trust by any means.

I think race helped Tyson because a white kid isn't as intimidating, and I think race helped Cooney because of the 'white hope' issue. But Taylor? IMO it didn't make a difference.

As for nationality, American fighters can fight in America without having to travel as much or re-arrange their entire lives to such an extent. American fighters have more of an American following, regardless of isolated instances like Ricky Hatton.

If Calzaghe had fought in the US 10 years ago, he would've had less travelling fans than Clinton Woods did.

Because of this, I don't think that a young Calzaghe was worth as much to HBO as Taylor. Of course the Hopkins win played a part, but so did nationality. Not because HBO are biased, but because nationality affects things such as fan support, fight location, opposition etc.

Taylor loses, and what happens? He can fight in his own country against a lesser opponent and be on HBO. Hamed loses and what happens? He can fight in his own country against a lesser opponent and HBO don't televise it. Ditto for Hatton-Lazcano.

I think, more than anything, especially with some of the guys you've mentioned, that personality plays a huge part in getting national and global tv exposure. You named guys like Tyson, Hopkins, Hatton, and Hamed. The difference between them and Calzaghe? Personality. Before you get mad, I'm not saying Joe doesn't have a personality, I'm just saying it's not the same as the guys you mentioned.

Taylor's got a nice guy, yessir type personality ("Bad Intentions" is possibly the most inaccurate nickname imaginable). He's got a decent backstory, especially considering his olympic experience.

Is HBO more likely to back an American fighter? Sure. But they are still a business with a bottom line. They will buy what sells. A good looking white guy in the boxing business with the success of Joe Calzaghe seems like a no-brainer, unless it was the quaility of his competition (or lack thereof) that turned American television away.

Americans will turn their backs on their own fighters if they don't entertain us with exciting, competitive fights. Taylor's the perfect example of this; after his Ouma and Spinks fights, there was major backlash, even in his hometown. So why would we want to watch a foreign fighter waste our time?

In another post, you mentioned Calzaghe-Lacy in response to Taylor-Spinks.

Taylor-Spinks was a 160lb guy against someone who had been KO'd at 147 not that long before. Lacy was, on paper, a very good fighter with massive power and an exciting style.

We can all look now and see that Lacy was overrated. But at the time, that wasn't the case, and on paper Calzaghe-Lacy was more likely to produce an exciting fight and more likely to be competitive.

Hindsight is always 20/20, ain't it?

Granted, Spinks was Taylor's worst fight. Dirk Diggler UK picked it for that reason. But you can't tell me that Joe never had an ugly defense air to a huge audience on national television for a big payday, HBO or not.

[dstew]

This is a bit of a cop-out, no?

You said he could've fought Hopkins sooner, then when Dirk answered your point, you ignored it and started talking about Pavlik.

I know Hopkins was reportedly offered $2.5 million and turned it down. Whether he would've taken the fight with Calzaghe if offered more, nobody knows for sure, so I probably should've worded it differently instead of saying, "I'm sure he could've gotten him before 2008."

However, I can't find actual numbers for the purse, but it's estimated each of them made over $10 million for their fight this year. Do I think $10 million would've gotten Hopkins in the ring in 2004? You bet your ass. Same for Taylor.

[Hitman932]

Honestly? I don't think I do that. Maybe I'm wrong, but for example I can admit that the below is correct:



.

I dont mean you at all. Just that so many arguments get bogged down in here by people who want to harp on the most insignificant things.

I really wonder what will motivate Joe to continue past the RJJ fight.

I think Joe believes that retiring undefeated will ultimately look better than a win over Kelly Pavlik, and certainly better than a loss. If he were to lose a lot of people would discount him and that is a risky proposition for a guy who knows there are money fights out there that he can easily win.

Do I blame him? Not really, boxing is a business and it is his life, im sure he is smart enough to know that if he fights as long as Hopkins he will certainly lose a few fights.

As a boxing fan I hate it, because at the end of the day I don't want to debate who would have won Pavlik/Cazaghe, I want to get drunk and watch them fight.

[dstew]

Well one minute Taylor is desperate to fight Joe, the next he's demanding silly money he knows he wont get.

Are we going to call him a "weasel" too?

Desperate? Really? He said he'd love a fight with Joe, and that turns into desparation? How does asking for $10 million make him a weasel? Greedy, maybe. Unrealistic, possibly. But a weasel? You are grasping at straws, my friend.

Regardless, you have done nothing to actually defend Calzaghe's integrity after the interview I posted where he said fighting Jones would be a disappointing end to his career, and he'd prefer to fight Pavlik.

[dstew]

Calzaghe was never even in negotiations with Pavlik. There was no offer and Calzaghe didnt agree to any fight. Calzaghe made it clear he wanted Jones long before Pavlik beat Joe's sparring partner. So the situation is nowhere near the same as Hopkins blatantly ducking out of an agreement to fight Joe.

That's fair in this instance, but my criticism of Calzaghe re: Pavlik still stands.

As for Calzaghe making it clear he wanted Jones instead of Pavlik, before Pavlik beat Lockett, clearly you didn't watch this youtube clip I posted:



Skip ahead to about 6:30 and enjoy.

It's been fun, but I've got to sleep sometime.

[Dirk Diggler UK]

I know Hopkins was reportedly offered $2.5 million and turned it down. Whether he would've taken the fight with Calzaghe if offered more, nobody knows for sure, so I probably should've worded it differently instead of saying, "I'm sure he could've gotten him before 2008."

However, I can't find actual numbers for the purse, but it's estimated each of them made over $10 million for their fight this year. Do I think $10 million would've gotten Hopkins in the ring in 2004? You bet your ass. Same for Taylor.

I cant remember the exact offer but Hopkins did not turn it down. He accepted and agreed to the fight. There was an article in Ring ****zine a few months ago where an executive from Showtime who sat in on the meeting confirmed the whole story. Both guys agreed to the fight, Hopkins later came back and demanded double the money.

I dont think you can ask for much more comprehensive proof than that.

[Dirk Diggler UK]

Desperate? Really? He said he'd love a fight with Joe, and that turns into desparation? How does asking for $10 million make him a weasel? Greedy, maybe. Unrealistic, possibly. But a weasel? You are grasping at straws, my friend.

Regardless, you have done nothing to actually defend Calzaghe's integrity after the interview I posted where he said fighting Jones would be a disappointing end to his career, and he'd prefer to fight Pavlik.

The point being you called Calzaghe a "weasel" for changing his mind about a fight with Pavlik to go for a bigger money fight with Jones.

Theres no need to be pedantic with the wording of my post. Taylor made it clear that Calzaghe was the guy he wanted to build his legacy. Yet down the line, he changed his tune and priced himself out of the fight to take on the likes of Spinks and Ouma - who lets face it, are no Roy Jones.

Im not here to defend Calzaghe's integrity. I realise what he said about Pavlik and what he said about Jones. I can only assume that after seeing the business Jones did with Tito, he changed his mind. Perhaps after feeling deterioration in the Hopkins fight, he felt he needed to make as much money as possible before bowing out.