greater fighter, trinidad or chavez?

[krispy kreme]

LOL! you're being bitter about clottey?

Clottey isn't my favorite fighter bro, Cotto is. I know people on here worship their favorite fighters, but I sure as hell don't .

[AntonTheMeh]

chavez was a badass but i still think people give trinidad alot of ****.

[Miburo]

Chavez definitely. Insane chin and tolerance for punishment plus a vicious body attack. He had something unique that, despite being a fairly crude fighter, let him reach the top.

[Thread Stealer]

chavez was a badass but i still think people give trinidad alot of ****.

People give both guys a lot of ****.

Chavez gets a lot of flack for padding his record with cab drivers, but those weren't the only guys Chavez beat. He has wins over quality fighters like Edwin Rosario, Jose Luis Ramirez, Meldrick Taylor, Juan LaPorte, Rocky Lockridge, Roger Mayweather, etc....I already described what I thought of his skills a few posts above.

And Trinidad gets a lot of **** for not being the most skilled or smart guy, but he wasn't some fighter with power and little else. He threw great combinations, and had good hand speed. He was a sucker for a straight right hand, but his defense was decent. He caught a lot of DLH's flurries on his gloves or they hit air, but Jim Lampley and the crowd would have ******s regardless. Tito was a top notch finisher. He knew when to throw punches to be accurate (and that takes smarts, knowing WHEN and WHERE to throw punches). He had a heavy jab that he used to set up his blows. He had great stamina. Even when he was having weight problems at 147, he finished strong against the likes of Pea and DLH through 12. He would come back stronger after getting dropped. He had a good variety of punches. The left hook was the best, but the straight right hand was no joke either. It was the straight right hand late in round 6 that turned things around against Vargas, after Vargas had dropped Tito in round 4 (nut shots aside) and dominated round 5. He was a sick bodypuncher as well.

[Thread Stealer]

Chavez definitely. Insane chin and tolerance for punishment plus a vicious body attack. He had something unique that, despite being a fairly crude fighter, let him reach the top.

Chavez was NOT crude.

[Miburo]

Chavez was NOT crude.

At that level and compared to a lot of other fighters yes, he was. Watch the Taylor fight. He wasn't a pure brawler and he didn't completely lack defense, but he was not slick by any stretch of the imagination. The skill he had was mostly concentrated in accuracy, which combined well with his power and an overall sense of strategy (again, by going to the body). Glad to offend you with my assessment though.

[williamhvx1]

TITO beat better oposition, and in the way to do that, he broke a lots other boxers fans hearts aaaaawww.he seem to get a lot hate from other ppl

[Thread Stealer]

At that level and compared to a lot of other fighters yes, he was. Watch the Taylor fight. He wasn't a pure brawler and he didn't completely lack defense, but he was not slick by any stretch of the imagination. The skill he had was mostly concentrated in accuracy, which combined well with his power and an overall sense of strategy (again, by going to the body). Glad to offend you with my assessment though.

Offended? No, but I find it very hard to see Chavez as "crude".

For a pressure fighter, he was solid defensively. He slipped a lot of shots and rolled with them well. The Taylor fight is actually an example of how he slipped shots. He was losing, but not taking nearly as much as the commentators and others would make it out to be. For instance, early in round 8 (or 9?) when Lampley goes "look at the speed of Meldrick Taylor's flurry!", but Chavez avoided all of them. Later on, in round 9, Taylor landed a beautiful combination (when Lampley was talking about Benton's game plan), but Chavez slipped nearly all of the follow-up shots. Blind Lampley said Chavez was on the verge of going down, but Chavez was slipping the shots. It wasn't the lack of defense that was losing it for JCC, it was Taylor's amazing workrate and speed.

Chavez picked shots well, had good footwork, threw combinations beautifully and mixed them from head to body. He created and exploited openings in his combos, and they were short shots, not wide wild swings.

What was crude about him?

[BlackHat]

TITO beat better oposition, and in the way to do that, he broke a lots other boxers fans hearts aaaaawww.he seem to get a lot hate from other ppl

Your talking cheap dude. Doesn't make any sense. Try to put some convincing facts.

[Miburo]

Offended? No, but I find it very hard to see Chavez as "crude".

For a pressure fighter, he was solid defensively. He slipped a lot of shots and rolled with them well. The Taylor fight is actually an example of how he slipped shots. He was losing, but not taking nearly as much as the commentators and others would make it out to be. For instance, early in round 8 (or 9?) when Lampley goes "look at the speed of Meldrick Taylor's flurry!", but Chavez avoided all of them. Later on, in round 9, Taylor landed a beautiful combination (when Lampley was talking about Benton's game plan), but Chavez slipped nearly all of the follow-up shots. Blind Lampley said Chavez was on the verge of going down, but Chavez was slipping the shots. It wasn't the lack of defense that was losing it for JCC, it was Taylor's amazing workrate and speed.

Chavez picked shots well, had good footwork, threw combinations beautifully and mixed them from head to body. He created and exploited openings in his combos, and they were short shots, not wide wild swings.

What was crude about him?

Just what I explained, he was a "take two to land one" type of grinding fighter. I feel you're making him out to be much better defensively than he was. He could slip a bit inside but built his career mostly on taking punishment and outlasting, the punches he avoided were mostly by getting in close where they can't land. He was also much more focused on landing single accurate power shots than combinations, shots that you don't get up from. You're correct that he mixed up his shots well, but they usually came one or two at a time.