Important Question.

[Run]

Yes, but then he beat Manfredo which pushed him to the top......

No No, he beat the godly Saiko Bika. He should be Number 1.



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What the hell does that fight have to do with this prospect?

I think you're jumping a gun here. I never once claimed that Calzaghe wasn't P4P material. I just would never call him the #2 guy surpassing everyone else like Wright and the Marquez brothers.

Calzaghe beating Lacy put him in the top ten. Didn't it?

I thought most were in agreement about that.

Okay, here's what I'm getting at then - you seem to regularly suggest that P4P should be based on achievement, not hypothetical potential. Correct?

Yet by placing Lacy in a P4P ranking just for beating up on a washed up Pemberton you're contradicting this somewhat.

Because, by your own earlier volition you suggest (I'm talking about other threads here) that to be P4P you have to beat P4P. Which Lacy clearly didn't.

See, I lean more towards potential. I mean, if the whole idea of it is "if these fighters were the same size, who would win?" then Hell yeah I'd have Joe higher than an old Wanky Wrong. In fact, I'd even have him higher than Ping Ping.


But.... would I have him higher than one or both Amiguez's? Probably not.

[Run]

Okay, here's what I'm getting at then - you seem to regularly suggest that P4P should be based on achievement, not hypothetical potential. Correct?

Yet by placing Lacy in a P4P ranking just for beating up on a washed up Pemberton you're contradicting this somewhat.

Because, by your own earlier volition you suggest (I'm talking about other threads here) that to be P4P you have to beat P4P. Which Lacy clearly didn't.

See, I lean more towards potential. I mean, if the whole idea of it is "if these fighters were the same size, who would win?" then Hell yeah I'd have Joe higher than an old Wanky Wrong. In fact, I'd even have him higher than Ping Ping.


But.... would I have him higher than one or both Amiguez's? Probably not.

Now you're just assuming that I use a certain limited criteria in judging fighters and labeling them with a ranking. If that's the case then I'd be like the only person right? lol

Because as it stands it seems like people have Calzaghe on their P4P lists because of how cool they think he is. Sure experience against opposition is probably the most important factor............but that didn't hold a candle to the fashion in which Lacy was taking everyone apart en route to title contention and status. He looked invincible, and even the Brits were nervous about him coming to fight Calzaghe. There are some cases where someone's noticeable abilities (Guzman also because of his speed and skillset) would influence you into a certain rating.

Oh and since you claim "Potential" is really the thing you base a fighter's ratings on. Why in the hell would you have Calzaghe rated up high..........when he looked like total **** against Hopkins?

He's not a light heavyweight at all.



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Now you're just assuming that I use a certain limited criteria in judging fighters and labeling them with a ranking. If that's the case then I'd be like the only person right? lol

Yeah, but I don't give a **** what others think, I'm just asking you. It's you I love, Semi.

Because as it stands it seems like people have Calzaghe on their P4P lists because of how cool they think he is. Sure experience against opposition is probably the most important factor............but that didn't hold a candle to the fashion in which Lacy was taking everyone apart en route to title contention and status. He looked invincible, and even the Brits were nervous about him coming to fight Calzaghe. There are some cases where someone's noticeable abilities (Guzman also because of his speed and skillset) would influence you into a certain rating.

For me those are two different scenarios altogether. If you said to me "Joan Guzman is P4P" I'd say "yeah, I think he is, actually... look to him to prove it very, very soon." I think he's the bomb, I really do.

But Lacy was never P4P for me. He's about as P4P as Ping Ping. All the Fat Yanks on here were getting hard seeing him get a UD over an old Omar Sheika... the same Omar Sheika that was TKO'd in five by The Blow during his prime. The only comparable opponent to make Lacy look good was The Blow getting taken to a VERY close decision (I did have him winning though) against Robin Reid, whereas Lacy destroyed the washed-up version. (And scored the start of the KDs off an illegal blow). I just look at this wide-swinging, inaccurate, SLOW guy and I don't, and never will, see P4P.

Oh and since you claim "Potential" is really the thing you base a fighter's ratings on. Why in the hell would you have Calzaghe rated up high..........when he looked like total **** against Hopkins?

That was just ONE fight.... I'm prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt based on one fight against a guy who grabs, butts and is generally predisposed towards stinking out the joint.

He's not a light heavyweight at all.

His power didn't seem to have carried up, certainly.

[Chunk..]

As old as he is, Hopkins manages to make everyone look bad.

Yes and no.

Joe didn't put in his best performance against Hopkins and you can't really blame Hopkins for that.

Joe did enough to win the fight, but left question marks.

[DiegoFuego]

If Calzaghe loses to Roy I will go ahead and say Calzaghe has the most overhyped career of anyone in the history of boxing. It will destroy everything he has "accomplished" to lose to an old, shot Roy Jones.

[Drunk Punch]

Quite simply: yes.

[dansweeney]

quite simply if joe does not defeat a 40 year old roy jones who was knocked out brutally twice in a row FOUR years ago, then he was never a p4p fighter and obviously overrated by a country mile(especially by brits). the fact that roy is only a 3-1 dog in the sports books should tell you that joe aint as good as brits think, ****ing chad dawson would be at least a 3-1 fav over roy at this point in vegas, and i dont think anybody is claiming he is an all time great p4p fighter like they do calzaghe

What do betting odds have to do with a fighter's value?

And drop the "brits" ****, it's boring.

[The Critic]

RWK, Calzaghe has been #1 in a lot of people's minds for a long time. Eventually you're just going to have to accept that Joe is one of the greatest fighters of his generation. behind Roy, sure, but far ahead of Hopkins and probably even ahead of Toney.